America gets to ship her old(ish) gear and arms to Ukraine and see it battle tested in a massive land war vs. our arch enemy. And keep in mind, we’re talking about materiel that’s already paid for and the replacements are already in the budget.
We’re getting to explore new battlefield tactics, see our enemy play his cards, gather insane amounts of intelligence, etc. It’s a no-brainer for NATO.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, America is totally triple if not quadruple dipping and leveraging the shit out of this whole situation in the way only they can, and yes, they are def playing 6-D chess here, but that doesn’t technically invalidate anything I’ve said thus far.
There’s still a $-value to all that and the fact remains that several if not many individual NATO members have not met and continue to fail to meet their obligations.
I believe I can paraphrase someone as having argued “well, 10 EU nations ARE, so checkmate!” and its like, how many members of the EU ARE NOT and why is that allowed to consistently stand, unaddressed?
And how exactly is it unreasonable to use that as a benchmark to guide how much further Europe gives to close that gap before we all throw our hands up and resign ourselves to the notion that if the US House stifles the effort, why do we really give a fuck? Europe can just bridge the gap and if the US can get its shit together, than thats just gravy (sufficiently nice but not necessary)
I’m with you, and for once in my life even Trump, in saying that NATO is not paying what they already agreed to pay for membership. This is fact, not opinion. Here is NATO’s very own source on the subject.
Trump’s asinine threat of pulling out of NATO is heinously stupid and damaging bluster, but FFS, are we to shut up and foot the bill for everything? (Yeah, we do, this time at least.)
But you have me thinking! Despite all we American’s have to gain, is this war not on Europe’s doorstep? Does Europe not have more to gain from defeating Russia? Do they intend to pussyfoot around because the threat of Russian aggression is closer to home? Just let us foot the bill, because we’re safe between two oceans?
In the end, I’m all in for Ukraine. All in. And I loathe Russians. Yeah, I said it. I grew up under the constant threat of those assholes nuking the entire planet. And after a century+ of nonstop international fuckery, it’s the Russian people, not the government.
Hell, for what it’s worth I fly a 4’ Ukrainian flag at my camp. I wear Ukranian patches on my outdoor gear. Let anyone ask me why.
Sorry you’re catching all the downvotes. This should be a place where we can honestly kick ideas around, especially unpopular ideas.
I think the answer is fairly simpler, from my point of view: because NATO is not a military alliance among peers. It is the military arm of the American empire. This allows US to essentially manage the foreign policies of most of NATO members, but it also comes with the cost of being the one paying the bills. Empires are expensive.
I will skip commenting the rest because, well, you are entitled to your own opinion and you can loathe who you want. I would perhaps simply suggest to look at your own country with an outside perspective and realize that if everyone used your same logic, the world will be a more hateful place than already is.
I wish Lemmy had a feature to allow the target of downvote-brigading to challenge downvoters and give them an option to collectively settle on an adjoined rebuke or shut the fuck up and recieve their downvotes in aggregate they bad-faith collectively tried to impose in turn.
Would get a lot of button-happy idiots to go pound sand
I got one for ya no one’s touched yet!
America gets to ship her old(ish) gear and arms to Ukraine and see it battle tested in a massive land war vs. our arch enemy. And keep in mind, we’re talking about materiel that’s already paid for and the replacements are already in the budget.
We’re getting to explore new battlefield tactics, see our enemy play his cards, gather insane amounts of intelligence, etc. It’s a no-brainer for NATO.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, America is totally triple if not quadruple dipping and leveraging the shit out of this whole situation in the way only they can, and yes, they are def playing 6-D chess here, but that doesn’t technically invalidate anything I’ve said thus far.
There’s still a $-value to all that and the fact remains that several if not many individual NATO members have not met and continue to fail to meet their obligations.
I believe I can paraphrase someone as having argued “well, 10 EU nations ARE, so checkmate!” and its like, how many members of the EU ARE NOT and why is that allowed to consistently stand, unaddressed?
And how exactly is it unreasonable to use that as a benchmark to guide how much further Europe gives to close that gap before we all throw our hands up and resign ourselves to the notion that if the US House stifles the effort, why do we really give a fuck? Europe can just bridge the gap and if the US can get its shit together, than thats just gravy (sufficiently nice but not necessary)
I’m with you, and for once in my life even Trump, in saying that NATO is not paying what they already agreed to pay for membership. This is fact, not opinion. Here is NATO’s very own source on the subject.
Trump’s asinine threat of pulling out of NATO is heinously stupid and damaging bluster, but FFS, are we to shut up and foot the bill for everything? (Yeah, we do, this time at least.)
But you have me thinking! Despite all we American’s have to gain, is this war not on Europe’s doorstep? Does Europe not have more to gain from defeating Russia? Do they intend to pussyfoot around because the threat of Russian aggression is closer to home? Just let us foot the bill, because we’re safe between two oceans?
In the end, I’m all in for Ukraine. All in. And I loathe Russians. Yeah, I said it. I grew up under the constant threat of those assholes nuking the entire planet. And after a century+ of nonstop international fuckery, it’s the Russian people, not the government.
Hell, for what it’s worth I fly a 4’ Ukrainian flag at my camp. I wear Ukranian patches on my outdoor gear. Let anyone ask me why.
Sorry you’re catching all the downvotes. This should be a place where we can honestly kick ideas around, especially unpopular ideas.
I think the answer is fairly simpler, from my point of view: because NATO is not a military alliance among peers. It is the military arm of the American empire. This allows US to essentially manage the foreign policies of most of NATO members, but it also comes with the cost of being the one paying the bills. Empires are expensive.
I will skip commenting the rest because, well, you are entitled to your own opinion and you can loathe who you want. I would perhaps simply suggest to look at your own country with an outside perspective and realize that if everyone used your same logic, the world will be a more hateful place than already is.
I wish Lemmy had a feature to allow the target of downvote-brigading to challenge downvoters and give them an option to collectively settle on an adjoined rebuke or shut the fuck up and recieve their downvotes in aggregate they bad-faith collectively tried to impose in turn.
Would get a lot of button-happy idiots to go pound sand
Its just soooooooo damn easy