• تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    49
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Every weapon sent to Ukraine is a weapon not dropped on Palestinians

    The west should exhaust its ammunitions somewhere else other than the Middle East

    I’m ashamed that my government hasn’t cut oil production. We are overdue for another oil embargo

    • Reddfugee42@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      10 months ago

      Russia is resorting conscripting seniors and prisoners and putting them in 50 year old tanks with faulty ammo but do go on 😅

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        We’ve been reading this shit for two years. At this point we’re coping as much propaganda as the Russians are.

        Even with 500.000 Russian soldiers dead, their population is 143 million people. I’m quite sure that they still have some spare Blyats lying around.

        • kiagam@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          not even if they were facing complete destruction would they conscript even 1% of the population.

          Wars end when people get pissed or you run out of money. We are getting closer to that every day for both sides. if ukraine can at least keep getting more money, they eventually win. Ukrainians are the defenders, so their population is willing to fight for longer

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            Don’t look up the amount of Russian casualties in WW2.

            Ukranians are getting forced into military draft too. I’m quite sure a large part of the Ukranians aren’t willing to risk their lives for their country either. But you seem to have no problem sacrificing them as if they are funny peons you can throw at Russians.

            Wonder how much you would support this if you were the one that was forced to go to the front line. You can volunteer to go to Ukraine and fight against the Russians yourself by the way.

            • kiagam@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              Exactly, when Russia was being invaded, they lost a ton of people to defend their land. Doesn’t mean they died willingly (people were drafted against their will, in every war in history that happens), but the pressure to surrender didn’t mount up on the government. In a defensive war, people are more willing to die and to let their fellow citizens die. There are always people clamoring for an agreement or a surrender to avoid loss of life, but those voices are few compared to the ones who want to defend their land (or want others to go do it).

              In a war of aggression however, every death come with a “why the fuck are we attacking them anyway? why did my son/brother/cousin have to die?”. USA lost in vietnam that way. More kills, more money, won basically every engagement and still lost the war. If the population is against a war of aggression, it will end.

              Very few wars end in complete domination of the enemy. Most end in an agreement of some sort or a retreat. I believe that, if Ukraine keeps getting money to stay in the fight, they will outlast Russia in political willingness to fight and will recover their land.

  • nekandro@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    126
    ·
    10 months ago

    This is just Zelenskyi’s government in Kyiv sacrificing everyone else to maintain the notion of a Ukrainian state for the wealthy elite who (coincidentally) live in Kyiv. Look at where the rich are. Look at where most conscripts are from.

    Ukraine is split into the ultra wealthy (Kyiv), the moderately well-off (Dnipro, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv), and everywhere else (which is remarkably poor). Kyiv has more than double the GDP/capita of the next richest administrative region. This war devastates the eastern economic centers and solidifies power in Kyiv… And for what?

    Ukrainian nationalism have sent hundreds of thousands of men and women to their death for no clear gains. Now, they want to send hundreds of thousands more, because the lives of Ukrainians mean nothing to the people in the white ivory towers of Kyiv. Is the sacrifice of more Ukrainian lives worth it to pursue the Western ideal of crushing Russia (so that the West can collectively focus on the Middle East and China instead)?

    • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      78
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      10 months ago

      Ukraine isn’t fighting “crush Russia” or “consolidate power,” they are fighting to exist as a nation. They are fighting to not be part of Russia, and if you claim Russia doesn’t consolidate wealth into a small few while sacrificing their poor as cannon fodder, you’re unabashedly lying.

      Now, do Western nations take advantage of this to severely weaken with no personal loss of life or territory? Absolutely. But just because it benefits the West doesn’t mean it doesn’t also benefit Ukraine.

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        10 months ago

        Ukrainian nationalism as a concept is something that has always been a Kyiv-centered idea. This is true stretching back to the Russian Revolution, as well. The concept of Ukraine as an independent state has always been Kyiv’s idea.

        Tell me you don’t understand Russian history without telling me you don’t understand Russian history.

      • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        51
        ·
        10 months ago

        They are hopped up on nationalism, which is encouraged by the Western warmongers for their own benefit.

    • havocpants@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      61
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      10 months ago

      Oh, it’s Ukrainian nationalism causing the deaths is it, not Russia invading? Do you really believe such obvious bullshit and lies?

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        10 months ago

        Well, if Ukraine didn’t stubbornly insist on remaining a nation, there wouldn’t be any fighting. Checkmate western scum. /s

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        10 months ago

        They had a peace deal laid out in front of them. That peace deal was orders better than the status quo today, nevermind where the war will be a year from now.

    • wildncrazyguy@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      Uh, because they are all within one nation. They identify as Ukrainians.

      You could transmute your statement to any other nation and it would be the same. Why do the people in Archangelsk fight for Moscow? Why do the people in Wichita fight for Washington?

      Tribalism is an innate feature of the human experience.

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        10 months ago

        Despite Taiwan’s charter stating very clearly that they are the rightful government of China, the people there identify as Taiwanese.

        Oh, oops, I don’t think I’m supposed to find contradictions.

        • wildncrazyguy@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          10 months ago

          Wow, you’re right! You have found the one chink in my armor that completely tears down my statement!

          The Romanovs must all be British now.

          The Dalai Lama must be American.

          Lana Peters is Russian. So are all Ukrainians and Tatars that were forced to migrate.

          Pack it up folks, by the decree of Nekandro, you can never be part of multiple tribes or switch ever!

            • wildncrazyguy@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              10 months ago

              I never said that Ukrainians must only identify as Ukrainians, just that it is the reason why folks outside of Kyiv choose to fight. Do not put words into my mouth.

              • nekandro@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                Folks out of Kyiv are being forcibly conscripted right now. Jesus, look at Ukrainian social media. It’s bleak out there.

    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      Ελληνικά
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      Russia started this war shooting elementary schools with tanks and launching rocket strikes on hospitals. Do you really think this is just about “the western ideal” of crushing Russia? If you want to see why Ukraine is fighting so hard to not become part of Russia, just look at how shitty Russia has been to its soldiers and people during this war.

    • reddwarf@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      10 months ago

      Just replace Ukraine in this post with russia and you have the true facts. Incredible this projection thing, always the same with fascists like you, always blame others of what you do and want.

      • nekandro@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        10 months ago

        It’s a war for Moscow that nobody outside of Moscow cares about? At least Moscow hasn’t completely decimated the demographic pyramid of Russia.

    • jackpot@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      10 months ago

      ukraine has put off counter attacks because the loss of life isnt worth it, they wait so they can get better equipment. compare that to russia who uses it soldiers as meatgrinders

  • jaeme@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    145
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Ukraine is never going to win this war no matter how hard western libs keep praying.

    This is the fate of any country that sells itself out to the imperial core including the EU states who facilitated this bloodbath instead of peace and diplomacy.

    I hope Russia does take over the whole of Ukraine because I don’t trust a Ukraine left to its own devices after this humiliating defeat.

    Who’s ready for the Ukranian 9/11?

    • reddwarf@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      10 months ago

      Usually you fascist shills are a bit more creative in lying, you reek of desperation.

    • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      That’s pretty much what the non-western corporate media reports. But I learned that no one in the west is ready to face it.

      In Arabic we do say المتغطي بأمريكا عريان so I’m not surprised Ukraine is being hollowed out by the US and left out naked in the cold

    • crackajack@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      10 months ago

      Tell me how exactly Russia benefits from the prolonged war with amounting financial cost and casualties that future generations of Russians will pay?

      Russia is experiencing demographic crisis before the war, and many men either fled or died, and the country have become beholden to China, Iran and North Korea. And Russia has only issued partial mobilisation, but imagine if the entire country then mobilised more for total war just to try to beat another country that is 1/10th the size and couldn’t do so for two years.

      Ukraine mobilised for total war already and they’re willing to die for a bigger goal and for their homeland. Are you yourself willing to be complicit to your country’s decline for handful of rubles that is depreciating in value over time?

      • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        10 months ago

        https://intellinews.com/russian-sanctions-boomerang-effect-means-a-year-of-stagnation-for-europe-in-2024-308348/

        Russian sanctions boomerang effect means a year of stagnation for Europe in 2024

        The boomerang effect of the Russian sanctions on the EU member states is having a mixed impact. Germany, France and Italy are worst affected as the pain from the changes in energy and input supplies impact their economies, dragging them down into recession, while the less dependent on Russia like Spain and Portugal are already showing signs of recovery, according to ING analysis.

        Overall Europe is headed for a year of stagnation that could be worse than in 2023. By contrast Russia reported growth of 3.5%, according to the preliminary results. And on January 18, an ebullient Russian President Vladimir Putin said that growth could come in at over 4% after revisions. The Russian Ministry of Finance (MinFin) also revised its GDP growth outlook for 2024 up to 3.5%, much improved from the earlier Central Bank of Russia (CBR) forecasts of around 2% for this year.

        Currently, sanctions seem to be doing more harm to Europe than they are to Russia.

        • crackajack@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          10 months ago

          Russia sanctioned-proof themselves in anticipation of the consequences of invading Ukraine. They have long history and experience after all since the Soviet days of international sanctions. However, autarky always shows to only have short term effect but in the long run, the severe consequences always catches up in the end. Just look at how Soviet Union led to its eventual demise and the war in Afghanistan accelerated that collapse. The war in Ukraine will do the same to the current regime.

          Conversely, even though the EU had been dependent on Russian fossil fuel before, the boomerang effect you mentioned is only short to medium term because disruption in trade is always expected during a war. But this only pushed the EU to import American gas and accelerate the EU Green New Deal to compensate for the loss of Russian gas and oil.

          With Russia only having 1/5th the GDP of Italy and endemic corruption, the failure to subdue Ukraine is only going to eat at the Russian economy and political prestige. Even if Russia wins or gets concessions, it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Because loss of demographics (Russia is experiencing population decline before the war) will have severe consequences to the workforce and economy, the sanctions after the war will continue to hit the Russians, and the country will become more economically reliant to China and by extension politically as well. More importantly, the claim to stop NATO expansion just had the boomerang effect of just admitting two new nations into the alliance. With Russia tied in Ukraine, they loss influence in CSTO as member states resumed border clashes, especially with Armenia becoming frustrated on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      10 months ago

      Incredible how you can state basic obvious truth and get mass downvotes. The fact that so many people still can’t comprehend that Ukraine can’t win this war shows the sheer power of western propaganda.

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        10 months ago

        North Vietnam couldn’t beat America. Afghanistan couldn’t beat the Soviet Union and then beat America. And, of course, Ukraine couldn’t resist a Russian invasion for years.

        If Russia can lose, then Ukraine can win, and Russia can definitely lose. By some measures, they have already lost. If this war was to “stop NATO expansion” then they lost when their aggression caused Finland to join. If their objective was to reenforce their image of dominance in the region, that has failed spectacularly.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          10 months ago

          It’s funny that you would bring up Vietnam because there is a parallel there, just not the one you think. The regime in western Ukraine that US backing bears a lot of resemblance to the regime US was backing in south Vietnam, and it’s now collapsing in exactly the same way.

          What you don’t seem to understand is that there was already a civil war between western and eastern Ukraine since the coup in 2014. Let’s take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:

          here’s how the election in 2004 went:

          this is the 2010 election:

          As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:

          Ukraine is not some homogeneous blob, but a country that’s divided precisely along the current combat lines.

          • crackajack@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            10 months ago

            Ukraine split amicably with Russia and the borders were agreed upon after the fall of Soviet Union. The same source that you linked for your last picture would have also shown survey that Russian-speaking Ukrainians also do not wish their country to be split despite the disagreements.

            But Putin exacerbated the division for his own end (same as how he stoked tensions in Georgia). That’s like Republic of Ireland stoking tensions in Northern Ireland to get back the north. Or, Turkey doing the same to take over the entirety of Cyprus after already taking over the northern part of the island. All of those would violate international sovereignty of a nation under the UN Charter, which Russia have practically done in the case of Ukraine.

            Russian MO is so easy to call out. They copy the playbook from another fascist claiming ethnic Germans abroad were being oppressed to justify invasion. Even though there was no evidence.

          • Tinidril@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            10 months ago

            You didn’t just move the goalposts, you obliterated them. Ukraine can win. I’m not interested in your goofy ass obfuscations about Ukrainian society.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              10 months ago

              Ukraine very obviously can’t win, but if you still haven’t figured that out yet then there’s little point talking with you.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  I don’t need to convince you of anything, reality will be impossible to ignore even for the most propagandized segments of the public soon enough.