One time it wasn’t a bigot, but an old guy taking creepshots of college girls on the light rail

Edit: If you’re going to argue against my meme, then why don’t you tell me what you expect me to do when I see someone hurling epithets and slurs against brown people or trans people, or homophobes calling me a “faggot” and spitting at me? Just sit there on my hands like a useless log?

And moreover, if you’ve come here from other instances for the sole purpose of calling me names, I’m going to report that shit and message your instance admins. There is NOTHING about my post or comments that is attacking or insulting anyone, unless you’re a creep or a bigot.

I’m not going to sit idly by while others cause harm.

Remember to always stand up for what’s right. Ignore the ignorant people who tell you not to. They’re part of the problem.

This is an essential part of mutual aid

  • chumbalumber@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    33·
    10 months ago

    While I’m a big fan of community action against bigotry and fascism (cable street based), I still don’t have it clear in my head about how best to structure society to protect those without power. If you have a police force then inevitably it’s going to serve the needs of the wealthy; if you don’t then community justice is often also likely to favour those with more power.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      8·
      10 months ago

      It’s not like I have a clear grasp either, and anyone who says they do is being either arrogant or dishonest.

      But one thing that comes to mind is diffuse sanctions. Scroll down to the secion on “decisions” – it’s a pretty easy read imo, with lots of examples – also, I’m just posting this to try to be helpful, not to argue – peace <3

      Also, keep in mind that many of the societal problems we experience may not always be caused by the state and hierarchies, but are certainly greatly exacerbated by them. There will always be those few that seek to cause harm however, and that’s why it’s important to keep in mind that you can’t just let someone like an ax murderer, neoliberal, or others who seek to cause harm and oppress others, continue to do so. There will always be those few who need experience community pushback or even exile. But I think that’s something that would happen very rarely, once you’ve esablished an equitable community based on principles such as horizontality and mutual aid.

      I’m trying to parse my own thoughts though, so this is just my thinking so far. There are so many different anarchist theories, that it’s hard to be dogmatic about one or another, and probably counter-productive to try.

      But back to my meme: Experiencing this at least gives me hope that perhaps given the right circumstances, most people are willing to step up and do the right thing. And like I said, this wasn’t just a one-off, but something I’ve seen happen repeatedly. To be specific, I’ve seen it happen most often on the light rail between Lake Street and Downtown in Minneapolis.

  • Halosheep@lemm.ee
    28·
    10 months ago

    Ah yes, mob justice. That always goes really well and innocent people are never hurt.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      193·
      10 months ago

      The meme is talking about forcing bigots off the bus. This is the opposite of what the meme is about lol

      So to answer your question: Of course not

      “bUt ThAt’S wHaT yOuRe SaYiNg ThAt MoB jUsTiCe Is GoOd”

      Nope, not saying that at all. I’m saying we need to use direct action against bigotry and other forms of injustice. What we don’t need to do is create new injustices.

      This is literally “punching Nazis is bad” logic. “Logic.”

      • Ethanice@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        25·
        10 months ago

        Your logic is that we don’t need police because mob justice will take care of it. Which group is more prone to mob justice, I wonder?

        • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
          121·
          10 months ago

          This is not my message. This is a very ungracious and bad-faith reading of my meme, and it’s not at all the situation I’ve described. The situation in question involves people who seek to cause harm.

          • Krafty Kactus@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            5·
            10 months ago

            Ok but it assumes that the rest of the people on the bus are reasonable which is correct in this case but is a bad assumption to make.

            • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
              61·
              10 months ago

              No, it doesn’t.

              Imagine if I post a picture of a BLM protest, saying I support it, and you reply by telling me if I support this protest, then I must also support white nationalist protests as well.

              That’s what you’re doing here, and it’s quite baffling that you can’t seem to grasp this.

              I believe in taking direct action against things that are harmful and oppressive, such as bigots. That’s … not really a controversial statement to make. It’s like saying we should punch Nazis. “Aha but now you need to punch everyone!” Uhhh … no. This leap you’ve made is quite irreconcilable with what I’ve communicated in my post and comments. It has some real “all lives matter” energy.

        • Hegar@kbin.social
          5·
          10 months ago

          I think you’re confusing approved and appropriate.

          Kicking a bigot or a creep off a train is appropriate, if even it’s not done by an official, approved authority figure.

          Support for that doesn’t mean supporting behavior that is unapproved and inappropriate, like religious persecution.

          Relying only on action from approved authorities doesn’t make it any more likely that the actions taken will be appropriate. As the police show us daily.

  • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
    154·
    10 months ago

    Last time I posted this, people were calling me a fascist and supporter of “mob justice” because apparently fascism is when you force racists and homophobes to get off the train using group pressure. I’m not afraid of people like that, and I speak up when I see it.

    • mindbleach
      12·
      10 months ago

      If punishing bad behavior relies on immediate local consensus, whoever’s present gets to decide what constitutes bad behavior. If you are surrounded by bigots - you will not throw them off the bus.

        • mindbleach
          8·
          10 months ago

          It is, though. Your insistence that it’s not does not constitute a rebuttal of this criticism.

          America has a history of self-organized direct action punishing perceived wrongdoers, sometimes in violent defiance of police and the courts. We just call it lynching.

          Minorities in general do not benefit from relying on group dynamics to save their asses… because they’re outnumbered. That’s what “minority” means.

          What a state offers, and what reliance on a state encourages, is a uniform set of behavioral standards beyond ‘I’m gonna fistfight a busload of Nazis, wish me luck.’ I mean sure, godspeed and aim for throats, but I hope your affairs are in order.

          • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
            31·
            10 months ago

            It literally does not though. You are incorrect about all of this! I clearly said that this action I’m describing is against bigots. You’re leaning on some “all lives matter” logic here.

            If I say punching Nazis is good, then you’d respond by saying I have to punch everyone, which is patently absurd. But clearly you need time to process why.

            In the meantime, I intend to continue to stand up for justice and equity, whether you like it or not. As someone who grew up gay in a very hostile community, I feel assured that I’m doing the right thing, because my ass has been saved firsthand by people who aren’t status quo-defending cowards.

            • mindbleach
              7·
              10 months ago

              We’re pointing out Nazis can also punch you.

              Jackass.

              If you’re calling for individual action to be the only thing stopping bigots… then only individual action will stop bigots. Bigots will otherwise be free to do whatever they want. Including doing unto you what you’re doing unto them, namely, shoving your ass off the bus because they don’t like the look of you. With no state to fall back on for protection or recourse, your choices are to come back with a bigger gang, or walk.

              Your moral rationale being better than theirs is not relevant. If you imagine group violence will only be done for good reasons then nobody should ever take you seriously. If you’re incapable of figuring out why everyone’s telling you this, can you at least take a hint from how everyone keeps telling you this?

                • mindbleach
                  7·
                  10 months ago

                  You just called me a coward while shoving a strawman in my mouth. Take a playground insult in stride if you’re going to respond to polite explanations by acting this shitty.

    • BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social
      6·
      10 months ago

      I get where you’re coming from and I want to be on your side, but this can get real tricky depending on the… I guess belief systems that make up the majority of the people on the bus.

      I see where your hearts at, and I like it, but even though a lot of them are being assholes about it, some of the people in the thread make a good point. How we feel about ‘group pressure’ depends a lot on which group is most numerous at the time.