Yeah level crossings would definitely have to be removed entirely for high speed rail to work and there’s towns where that can be quite a challenge. eg: Dannevirke has 6 level crossings or Hastings which has 10, though it’d be sick to see passenger rail pulling up to the station right in the middle of town again.
Its maddening that the Auckland-Wellington route is so expensive, but its because they turned it into a tourist trip rather than a transit service. Back in the day (not even that long ago really) it used to run between the two cities twice daily with both The Overlander during the day and The Northerner overnight. But it went to day service only in 2004 and then by 2012 the Overlander had become the tourist version. And in the early 2000s the Bay Express was still running too, as a student you could get half price tickets so it was a great way to get home from Uni in the holidays. But as with the Overlander/Northerner it was slow - 5 1/2 hours to get all the way to Napier. Busses took about the same time but were cheaper (on the full fares).
Anywho, while i’d love proper high speed services between regions I think there’s other things that could be done now that would be good. Eg, the Capital Connection only runs once a day, it’d be grand if there was a shorter service that ran during the day as well so it was a more flexible route. Up in Hawkes Bay a railcar service or just a small DE unit and trailer connecting to the airport from at least as far south as Waipukurau would be good if it ran often enough to provide a viable and flexible commute / flight connection.
Eg, the Capital Connection only runs once a day, it’d be grand if there was a shorter service that ran during the day as well so it was a more flexible route
I think the problem is that the cost of running the full train and the cost of running a half-length train are not that different. You still need one driver, the train is only used for that route so it’s not like you’ll use it elsewhere during the day, you still need at least one person to take tickets. The full train probably only has two?
Plus they talk about cancelling it every few years because they already don’t have enough people at peak times.
Probably what we need is a government to take rail seriously. And if they did take it seriously, they wouldn’t add services that people complained they needed, they would do a proper assessment on where to invest money for the best bang for buck and then actually invest that money. Actually look at the cost/benefit ratio of rail hubs for freight, faster trains (even just 110kph), and get data on the number of cars off the road that would bring.
Yeah I definitely wouldn’t want to run the whole Capital Connection as a middle of the day service - just a unit with a couple of carriages would really be all that’s needed. The challenge is that the best units we have are electric, but:
There’s a big gap in the electrification from Palmerston North down to Waikanae
The two electric systems either side aren’t compatible.
So to run it as electric you’d need to extend the Wellington system up - which would be a poor investment as its not what all the heavy freight stuff uses. Or extend the main trunk system south which would be expensive for the Wellington commuter fleet converting them.
But Queensland developed a Diesel tilt train that can do the job at speed, only its a bit more like the existing Locomotive + carriages, than just a two carriage powered + trailer style one rocking around Wellington these days.
I always thought it was interesting that we have these two power systems for trains, and Wellington over the last 5-10 years invested huge amounts of money in upgrading the lines and the trains. With some planning we could have had the government step in to help change them over to heavy freight suitable lines and get the Auckland to Wellington route electrified for heavy freight and passenger. Currently we have neither!
Yeah its just a lack of political will and a belief that road is the answer really. Bear in mind I think you have to extend Te Rapa to Auckland and Palmerston North to Wellington as well. For mine I think it would be a great investment.
Even if we didn’t do those extra bits, when the Wellington work was being done they could have converted to heavy freight suitable lines. I guess one issue is you can’t keep running the old trains as the track is upgraded bit by bit, but I think it would have been worth it to do.
I should have a dig to see if I can find it, I have this vague idea in my head that possibly when the new electric units were built a decade or so ago that they might have made provision in them for the different systems - but whether that’s real or a false memory I don’t know.
And provision could just mean can be converted, rather than can work right now.
Was doing some googling on whether the Matangi could do both the Wellington DC & Main Trunk AC, and found there was actually a business case prepared by Waka Kotahi a couple years ago that would have run electric units all the way to Palmerston North; just using batteries after Waikanae. Which is a fairly elegant and flexible solution to the problem.
Yeah level crossings would definitely have to be removed entirely for high speed rail to work and there’s towns where that can be quite a challenge. eg: Dannevirke has 6 level crossings or Hastings which has 10, though it’d be sick to see passenger rail pulling up to the station right in the middle of town again.
Its maddening that the Auckland-Wellington route is so expensive, but its because they turned it into a tourist trip rather than a transit service. Back in the day (not even that long ago really) it used to run between the two cities twice daily with both The Overlander during the day and The Northerner overnight. But it went to day service only in 2004 and then by 2012 the Overlander had become the tourist version. And in the early 2000s the Bay Express was still running too, as a student you could get half price tickets so it was a great way to get home from Uni in the holidays. But as with the Overlander/Northerner it was slow - 5 1/2 hours to get all the way to Napier. Busses took about the same time but were cheaper (on the full fares).
Anywho, while i’d love proper high speed services between regions I think there’s other things that could be done now that would be good. Eg, the Capital Connection only runs once a day, it’d be grand if there was a shorter service that ran during the day as well so it was a more flexible route. Up in Hawkes Bay a railcar service or just a small DE unit and trailer connecting to the airport from at least as far south as Waipukurau would be good if it ran often enough to provide a viable and flexible commute / flight connection.
I think the problem is that the cost of running the full train and the cost of running a half-length train are not that different. You still need one driver, the train is only used for that route so it’s not like you’ll use it elsewhere during the day, you still need at least one person to take tickets. The full train probably only has two?
Plus they talk about cancelling it every few years because they already don’t have enough people at peak times.
Probably what we need is a government to take rail seriously. And if they did take it seriously, they wouldn’t add services that people complained they needed, they would do a proper assessment on where to invest money for the best bang for buck and then actually invest that money. Actually look at the cost/benefit ratio of rail hubs for freight, faster trains (even just 110kph), and get data on the number of cars off the road that would bring.
Yeah I definitely wouldn’t want to run the whole Capital Connection as a middle of the day service - just a unit with a couple of carriages would really be all that’s needed. The challenge is that the best units we have are electric, but:
So to run it as electric you’d need to extend the Wellington system up - which would be a poor investment as its not what all the heavy freight stuff uses. Or extend the main trunk system south which would be expensive for the Wellington commuter fleet converting them.
But Queensland developed a Diesel tilt train that can do the job at speed, only its a bit more like the existing Locomotive + carriages, than just a two carriage powered + trailer style one rocking around Wellington these days.
I always thought it was interesting that we have these two power systems for trains, and Wellington over the last 5-10 years invested huge amounts of money in upgrading the lines and the trains. With some planning we could have had the government step in to help change them over to heavy freight suitable lines and get the Auckland to Wellington route electrified for heavy freight and passenger. Currently we have neither!
Yeah its just a lack of political will and a belief that road is the answer really. Bear in mind I think you have to extend Te Rapa to Auckland and Palmerston North to Wellington as well. For mine I think it would be a great investment.
Even if we didn’t do those extra bits, when the Wellington work was being done they could have converted to heavy freight suitable lines. I guess one issue is you can’t keep running the old trains as the track is upgraded bit by bit, but I think it would have been worth it to do.
I should have a dig to see if I can find it, I have this vague idea in my head that possibly when the new electric units were built a decade or so ago that they might have made provision in them for the different systems - but whether that’s real or a false memory I don’t know.
And provision could just mean can be converted, rather than can work right now.
Was doing some googling on whether the Matangi could do both the Wellington DC & Main Trunk AC, and found there was actually a business case prepared by Waka Kotahi a couple years ago that would have run electric units all the way to Palmerston North; just using batteries after Waikanae. Which is a fairly elegant and flexible solution to the problem.
Oh now you mention it, I remember that being mentioned.
Doing the total conversion is more of a long term view and batteries are more of a short term view, in my mind.
I’d love if we did great long term investment projects.