Video description:
Roundabouts - the circular intersections seen all over Europe and elsewhere in the world - are said to be far safer than traffic lights. Research shows they reduce crashes, clear up congestion and save cities quite a bit of money. They have a heritage in the U.S., but America has a fraction of the roundabouts that far smaller countries like France, Spain and the United Kingdom have. But there are some states that are adopting them, and one small town in particular: Carmel, Indiana. The people of Carmel love their roundabouts and the mayor credits them with helping revitalize his city. So are they all they’re cracked up to be? And if so, why hasn’t the U.S. adopted them?
Because American boomers treat them as 4 way stops and scream when they see a stream of cars zip by not giving them a turn. Their brains simply can’t understand how they work. Too much lead paint and leaded gas eating their minds, I guess. My own Dad still swears up and down it’s a 4 way stop and it’s an hour long rant when two or more cars go buy “because of those damn circles!”
He’d never make it in Europe. Not a chance.
Meanwhile I’m sitting behind them yelling “it’s a yield!” at my windshield impotently
Need to bring back nudgeable car bumpers. :)
My mother in law, an idiot, says they’re too confusing. She’d rather sit at a light or deal with a stop sign than… Yield to anyone coming from the left. She says they’re more dangerous as well.
I’ve tried to explain the benefits but she won’t hear it.
The real truth is that it does not matter if you are confused. Roundabouts are safer, even for confused drivers. Even if you totally fuck them up, cut people off, go the wrong way. They are pretty much always safer than signal controlled intersections and usually safer than all way stops for the simple reason that they force speed reduction and eliminate head-on and T-bone collisions.
They are also cheaper in the long-term, far more attractive places for humans to exist in or near, and can generally handle higher traffic volumes without congestion.
Seems to me Americans despise any kind of unsubtle traffic calming – anything that makes them vroom vroom less – even if it factually reduces congestion & trip time length. Unless it’s on their own block, then they want more of it, because the true American suburban spirit is wanting dangerous traffic in other peoples’ neighborhoods.
Americans also seem to just enjoy the meme of “roundabouts are sooo confusing oh woe is me I am so scarrrred”. I don’t think people sincerely believe this shit. I think they just like repeating it for the same reason people talk about the weather. And they just repeat it so much that they forget it’s bullshit.
What roundabouts do fail at is something Americans LOVE – establishing fault. It’s harder to tell who did something wrong when incidents happen in roundabouts. There’s no unsubtle red light to establish blame. And establishing blame is the be-all and end-all to the American justice system. Harm reduction barely even factors in.
The ones they installed near my house need a revision. With the way the exits are positioned you can easily enter and exit (1 exit later, most used) at about 30mph if you use the painted inner shoulder. And people do. This doesn’t help that b/t those 2 exits is an entrance that cannot see the leftmost entrance until people are coming into it. Getting into the roundabout from that entrance is super dangerous.
And if I see one more motherfucker exit the circle from the inner lane without changing lanes I’m going to start assuming they won’t and get read-ended. Fuck their shiny chrome trucks and fuck their insurance premiums.
I’m complaining but I love roundabouts. More please. Just fix that one.
And if I see one more motherfucker exit the circle from the inner lane without changing lanes
This is an issue where I live too. Also people like to randomly stop to let people in, when there is no one behind them.
Just as a reminder since the conversation is going to the same tired tropes:
Even still, safer. That potential collision from ignoring proper right of way in the roundabout is still a safer angle of attack at lower speeds.
@Neato If people were going through the intersection at 30mph with the roundabout, how fast would they be traveling those streets without it? The >>30mph streets are likely the fundamental issue here since I doubt anyone is accelerating into or in the roundabouts. I bet these are huge, wide, roads with big clearings in the easements to promote that high DOT letter grade (which, outside of expressways, correlates with the most dangerous roads).
Fairly high-speed roundabouts are possible, but if the road really needs such high speeds odds are pretty good you’d be smarter to have a simple stop (for a country road) or a more thoughtful design (for an urban road) to eliminate the need for a huge roundabout structure. Usually the “we tried nothing and are all out of ideas” approach North American designers take is to just make a massive, signal-controlled intersection and change nothing else about the overall street pattern.
And if I see one more motherfucker exit the circle from the inner lane without changing lanes
Uh, that’s what you’re supposed to do. Anyone entering the roundabout must yield to both lanes. In this diagram, if the red car is going straight, it must yield to the green car, though the green car should prepare to dodge the red car if necessary:
My apologies. I didn’t explain correctly. In my case, the person exiting the circle from the inside lane is exiting into a single exit lane. The signage when entering the circle forbids this. You must change lanes to the right/outer lane before exiting certain exits.
So my situation, 2 cars are traveling in the circle, one in the inner lane, one outer. Both want to take the next exit, that’s a single lane. Inner car veers across outer lane to the exit, nearly hitting the other car.
Not where I live. My city and county use them almost exclusively. You end up loving them too. I can’t stand actual stoplights and stop signs now.
My girlfriend’s parents are from small rural communities and still live in one. Just last weekend we got to hear all about how there was a roundabout installed, and “traffic is going to be messed up” and “it is so confusing” and “why can’t we just have the stop sign back?”.
No amount of telling them facts to the contrary will change their opinion because they’re also of the generation that thinks: if this isn’t how we’ve always done it, it must be wrong, because we’ve always been the best.
“We don’t want it to change because that is how it was and if you change it then it won’t be that, that’s why we can’t change it”
Small town folk when they approach a round about:
I hope enough experience with roundabouts will change their mind. It does generally feel more efficient/quicker to me most of the time when I go through one. I am not waiting at a stop light, which is pretty mind numbing.
Plus they’re fun. Hard to contain the ‘wheeeee!’ when you hit those round bois.
Miss your turn? No you didn’t! Just keep circling, just keep circling…
Especially when it’s one of these bad boys
because they’re safer?
The answer to “why doesn’t the US have more of them” is always because they’re better, or safer, or cheaper, or cleaner, or nicer, or more helpful when it comes to the US.
just to have a conversation. I think usa has the most violent society ,because without violence you couldn’t accept credit score or no rest from work. having your life constantly at risk, either having it gravely compromised by a car accident (the msising roundabout of the article) or ripped away by a shooting… this is key to us capitalism.
Actually, the answer is almost always either money or because people don’t want to learn new things. Though, they also take up more space than a stop sign or so light so they can’t go everywhere.
I think governments should follow the stats but I do see a lot of older people ‘stuck’ at traffic circles. There should be more public outreach to help them learn the new rules and to communicate proper order of operations to drivers—especially for traffic circles with a mix of yield and stop signs and with multiple lanes.
Do you not have an equivalent of “the highway code” or “rules of the road” etc that’s regularly updated and distributed or frequently mentioned in the press to keep people informed of regulatory changes?
If we do I’ve not seen it publicized enough to be visible at all:) I’ve lived in several US states and the only time I remember public service info about driving rules updating was when they implemented rules where you couldn’t drive holding your phone back in the early 2000’s. We take a written and road test to get a license initially but afaik they don’t send out updates or remind people about the rules after that point—even when you renew.
We’ll get info on changes on radio stations and streaming service ads here in Ireland, also updates to any changes on the annual roadworthiness test, I’ll let you look up “Irish road safety advert” on YouTube, they’re quite graphic.
One of our suburbs here in the Midwest has the most roundabouts of any US city, and they’re adding them to the suburb I live in and others relatively rapidly. Even replacing a “Michigan left” that everyone hates with one soon (wish they’d done it right the first time!).
People still complain about them ALL the time but I don’t care, I like them and the intersections where they’ve been added don’t back up like the four-ways used to (often BADLY). Bring ‘em! But also, learn how to use them people, it’s not that hard: if you’re already inside the roundabout you have the right of way until you leave. May be nuances with multiple lanes and such but it’s mostly ONE RULE!
We have several in my area and they’re becoming more popular, but people have no idea how to navigate them, even when there are signs that say what to do. People will enter the circle and then slow down and sometimes stop to let someone into the circle. Some people don’t bother checking to see if it’s clear for them to enter the circle. I’ve come close to several accidents because someone decided to enter the circle without looking. Yeah, it just takes familiarity, but these are circles to enter and exit an interstate in a residential area so the most of the people using it should be familiar by now. It’s been several years since the circles were installed.
Visited LA recently, that was the only place so far I have witnessed roundabouts combined with… stop signs! I was blown away but I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised.
Mebbe 10 in my two million+ metro. They’re fine. I do think people here get excited/paranoid when school buses enter them (there are three schools around one) but it usually is fine.
I sure wish we had more of them. There’s one in the entirety of our county, which is actually quite large. They’re so much better than four-way stops.
There is one near me where the town just put up stop signs on every entrance.
The reason they’re safer is that they’re so clearly dangerous that everyone using one has to slow the fuck down to use them. That’s also the only reason they’re usable, since they can indefinitely starve drivers - their core logic is not compatible with the traffic algorithm. Inhate roundabouts and I will die on this hill.
How would you explain roundabouts having consistently better throughput, even when compared to traffic lights?
You’ll probably die while being t-boned by someone else sharing the same view as you, it’s strange that your country’s road safety record is far worse than any country that has been using roundabouts for decades.
Mostly because we hate calling them “roundabouts”.
In some parts, we refuse to use the term. It’s “rotary” or “traffic circle”.
