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I’ve got a couple of reports that this is not about the Fediverse. It took me a while to be able to look at the reports and since some almost entirely Lemmy-focused discussions have taken place, so I’m leaving this post up because of the discussions.
This is not a precedent to post random off topic stuff, though.
Yes please do.
I hope so. Enshittification means people get more incentive to look for alternatives, making the internet more decentralized. Reddit CEO doing his part!
I don’t care about using Reddit because I don’t, but if they paywall things people use Reddit to deshittify Google searches for, that’ll be bad.
It’s funny that this news is sparking talks of a reddit exodus, when way worse stuff that they do like monetizing all your data and privacy isn’t met with much outrage.
They’re basically trying to offer a Patreon/OnlyFans option which makes a lot of sense as a monetization strategy and doesn’t even seem that scummy if the subreddit creators themselves are opting into the format.
Honestly that makes sense, they’re probably kicking themselves for it. They could have been the onlyfans or Patreon, and honestly back in the day I would have been for that
Most of the terrible stuff Reddit did only affected a tech-literate minority, at least knowingly. Most users didn’t use 3rd party apps so they didn’t even understand what the uproar was about, and we should know perfectly well people don’t care about their privacy.
In contrast, this change is likely to affect day-to-day habits of at least some people.
People don’t value their privacy…
Honestly Lemmy is not a great platform for privacy either. Lots of your data is federated to other servers that can do whatever they want with it.
A public forum (be it old school message boards, Reddit or Lemmy) is by definition not private. It’s more about the policies of a given platform; whether you do allow algorithmic content targeting and other schemes to “drive engagement”.
Yeah, I think the big selling point for me is not the privacy on Lemmy, but control of conversation.
Yeah but there is a FOSS nature about it. At least ANYONE can do whatever they want with the comments and posts I make public instead of just whichever company pays reddit for API access.
And reddit has some legal jargon about co-owning the copyright to whatever you post over there but lemmy doesn’t so you technically have more protection here to your own intellectual property.
And privacy is a whole different can of worms as I don’t think ruud is harvesting telemetry to sell to advertisers and whatnot.
Yeah but there is a FOSS nature about it. At least ANYONE can do whatever they want with the comments and posts I make public instead of just whichever company pays reddit for API access.
I mean… True; it’s just I wouldn’t characterize Lemmy as superior on privacy. Ideally we’d figure out a way to fix that, but I’m not sure we can really.
And reddit has some legal jargon about co-owning the copyright to whatever you post over there but lemmy doesn’t so you technically have more protection here to your own intellectual property.
This I’m not so sure about. You aren’t handing over ownership rights when you sign up for most (any?) instance, but your ownership right is effectively null and void.
IANAL but arguably in a US court (at least) since Lemmy is effectively a true public place, you effectively lose the right to tell other people what they can do with your interactions.
And privacy is a whole different can of worms as I don’t think ruud is harvesting telemetry to sell to advertisers and whatnot.
That part is arguably true. It is harder to tie this data back to a particular user for the purposes of selling to advertisers.
You don’t lose your copyright just for posting it in a public space, even Reddit. But you do give reddit a perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable license to do basically whatever they want with your IP :
Found here under “your content”: https://redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
With Lemmy all that language of perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable goes away to my knowledge. You still wholely own your own IP if you decide you don’t want it on Lemmy anymore.
The law is largely down to who argues better in court. There is precedent for reduced rights in public spaces. e.g. if you go into the town square and talk to someone and it’s caught on the camera of the mother a park bench away that’s recording her child … that’s not an illegal recording and she has the copyright on said recording. You have no legal right to ask the mother to delete the recording or delete your audio from the recording, even in a two party consent space because you have no right to privacy in a public setting like that.
Similarly, when you post on Lemmy … it’s kind of good faith that if you delete something it actually gets deleted from the platform across all instances and that it’s not just visibility deleted but deleted from the databases under the hood.
You do “own your content” but it’s pretty meaningless ownership.
Written works are tangible and so have a copyright upon creation, just like the video in your example. That recording posted online “publicly” where anyone can see it free of charge wouldn’t change its copyright. Also private internet sites really aren’t “public” space in the ways most laws would define it, because it’s a server hosted by a private individual. We’re in ruud’s house right now so-to-speak. He has every right to censor us and show us the door if he so chooses.
By posting or commenting here (or on reddit for that matter) we don’t fully waive copyright to IP. If I write a unique poem here and some random person plagiarizes it and sells it I could still sue. But on reddit, if reddit decides to publish a book of “Best of reddit poems” or transfer that license to someone else I’m shit out of luck. On lemmy without the legalese I stand a good chance in court revoking the assumed license of my work and having a positive legal outcome.
I’m in my own house, notice the @social.packetlosss.gg; our “houses” are just talking and that continued conversation is subject to ruud’s and I’s discretion. The way federation works, really nobody “owns” the content, there’s just an agreement on what the primary copy is. There’s no support for this in the software currently, but you could conceptually change which server is the primary copy at any time. The protocol and to some extent the content on it exist in an intangible space.
IMO all Reddit did was strengthen their legal argument; they arguably already had the right to make a “book of reddit poems.” They just wanted to stack the deck on their side. Arguably you have the right to make a book of poems on Reddit.
At least yall dont literally legally own my whole ass identity while im on lemmy
At least Lemmy is open source and there isn’t any advanced analytics running and telling server operators exactly what you look at and for how long. And if there was, it would be discovered quickly and you could host your own instance and only look at content locally.
Your posts aren’t private. But that’s the whole point so that they can be seen and federated
No it wouldn’t. People need to understand that open source provides 0 security against intentional abuses when there’s a networking layer involved.
I could be running an analysis on the data your instance handed to my instance just like Reddit is … and you would have absolutely no way of knowing.
Privacy is invisible. Being barred from content unless you pay is highly visible. Most people only really care about whether their end user experience is affected. People cared when their favourite apps got shut down, but they don’t really give a shit their data is sold. We’ve been so desensitized to having our data sold these days that most people have stopped caring.
There is also an inherent kind of entitlement that people have. Putting the lack of visibility of privacy on the totem pole of priority, people like free things. When you start to charge them for an objectively worse service, you tend to piss off your user base.
It will be for NSFW stuff I bet.
it’s always porn…
in this case it sort of makes sense as banks and credit card providers might be more willing to provide better terms of there are increased guard rails for accessing porn.
Looks like it’s wallstreetbets of all things.
please, do it!! ♥️
So sounds to me like… reddit’s looking to compete with say patreon etc… IE allow people to post content either early to payers, or release some things exclusively to payers.
Obviously the value of that will depend on how big of a cut reddit goes after, and assuming they don’t try and move existing participant focused subreddits to it.
While I don’t doubt that there’s a market there, I would never in a million years pay money for a “power user”'s reddit posts. Fucking wild.
power users like ghislaine maxwell will never not be wild to me
sure, but like 90% of the porn on there is just to funnel people into the creators only fans these days. this could be good for those users. if they offer better terms with a lower cut than only fans i could see it taking off. there’s no discoverablility on only fans. they basically have to advertise elsewhere. and no one wants to go to a whole different website to make a whole different account when they’re already mid jerk. additionally, not many people will go to a porn site to make an account if they aren’t already looking to get off. removing that barrier for people that already have payment info on Reddit could turn it into a 1 click transaction. something that people can impulse purchase with their horny brain before the real brain catches up. if this takes off well enough they could take a lot of only fans’ customer base.
i don’t really like it, but it makes some amount of sense. personally, i think the quality of the porn on Reddit has done down almost perfectly in line with the rise of only fans. this would only serve to make it worse. Internet porn was at its best when it wasn’t monetized and the people making it were doing it because they felt like it and it probably got them off. now it’s just a job for most of them. a job that they often get real sick of real quick when they realize the amount of work, organization, and maintenance it requires to actually be successful on the platform. people that just did it for the love of strangers seeing them have sex didn’t have those burdens and could just upload what they wanted when they wanted. i guess it’s just like any art. it’s better when it’s not commercialized.
on the other other hand, i do think only fans and the democratization of the porn industry has been good for creators. the porn industry was exploitative and very unhealthy for the actors. they often did meth and downed copious amounts of boner pills to make it through long shoot days with numerous angles and shots. but idk… i never liked that kind of studio porn anyway. it’s just annoying that the replacement for it, which i also don’t typically like has taken over so much of the amateur space.
shit sorry… this became about the porn industry as a whole… i have many opinions on it because I used to work in the paid porn industry on the broadcast maintenance side. but yeah, this Reddit thing could work out if they don’t completely fuck it up.
Again though I’m seeing it, at least working well, would be like a patreon, I wouldn’t think of it as a reddit “power user”, I’d imagine that more as courting people that already have some form of business. Say authors, artists, video game developers, youtube video creators etc… that would be posting stuff either early or exclusively there.
Incoming a bunch of clickbait and fake advertisement about paid content that a bunch of redditors will pay for to access, and then realize the content isn’t there, isn’t what they thought it would be or isn’t worth paying for / is shit.
Hey, pay to see my sub guys, I promise there are posts with pictures of [???]. You pay and then it is all AI generated pics. Etc.
