- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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I’ll tell you a secret you might have missed.
It’s not about the privacy.
It’s about a foreign country of similar power levels having the ability to shape your people’s political opinions.
They’re shitting themselves because it’s one of the first times it’s happened to them instead of them doing it to someone else.
I feel like the American media is out of control and is no longer a tool of the people, but a fire hose of the wealthy, disseminating whatever will help them keep their power.
They have convinced the people that news makes you intelligent, when really the lack of new ideas and differing viewpoints creates a closed feedback loop so they just regurgitate whatever they hear with absolute confidence, but if you ask them a question it all falls apart.
Fox, CNN, New York Times, NPR, it’s all owned or supported in such a way that they dare not bite the hand that feeds it.
So I, for one, am open to hearing what foreign countries have to say.
America is guilty of everything Americans accuse China about.
Same here with india
American politicians don’t need social media to invade peoples privacy. The patriot act sealed the deal a while ago. If they want to spy, they’re going to.
I should also add that the whole tik tok ban is just a way to toss in extra laws that give the America government more control. They say it’s about tik tok, but it’s a scapegoat to get people to vote for invasive laws.
its almost like foreign governments collecting information about your population is a bad thing for your people and your government, or something.
It’s worse for the US to have my data as a Canadian than China. America can come for me, and my country would hand me over. China can’t do shit to me.
America would lose all standing in global politics and the global economy if they invaded Canada without very strong reason. If the US started a war with China tomorrow, half the world, Canada included, would either do nothing or join them.
They’re talking about extradition
Wtf does that have to do with anything? Were talking about large scale spying not infringing on American copyrights.
… And when they are spying, and see something they don’t like, they CAN come for me. Canadian government won’t stop them.
I don’t want a shitty country like America to spy on me. Sorry. America is not as great as Americans act like it is.
Like I’ve said, I want no one to spy on me. But if I had to pick, I’d pick China because it makes me safer. Not because I’d like it. I wouldn’t. Fuck spying.
Yeah, the US is really gunna come after you because…? Right, there is no way your government would give you over without actual evidence.
It seems like you don’t understand the point.
I also think it’s really weird that Americans are replying to me being really defensive over other countries not preferring to give America all their data.
Like I said, America isn’t as great as Americans think it is. The rest of the world doesn’t want their data funneled into America. I’m sorry if this is how you’re finding out that America isn’t number one.
I’m really not trying to be a dick or argue, I just don’t get how you don’t understand the basic concept that Canada will hand me over to the US, but won’t hand me over to China.
It’s also frustrating that you guys think that if I don’t agree with America having my data, that I love China? I don’t. Never said I did. I hate both places having my data. I hate my own country having my data. It’s not all black and white.
Americans when Canadians say they’d prefer TikTok spying vs an American company:
but seriously. I want no one to have my data, but if someone HAD to have it, I would prefer TikTok over anything from Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, etc…
My country wont export me to China if I post something negative or pirate something. My country will export me to the US if they come banging on my door. I am quite literally safer letting China have a bit of my data.
Don’t worry the illegally operating Chinese police station in your city will just come and get you. No need to be exported, you get to be questioned and held by a foreign officer without any direct oversight in your own country!
The point
your head
The point being that the US even if aggressive uses the proper channels to pursue action against entities it believes to be dangerous?
How is that worse than China illegally and secretively doing the exact same thing within your own borders they promised to respect.
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
Nobody cares.
Then people should stop asking me…
Okay next time you can stop there then if that’s all you want to say. No need to vaguely complain about YOUR GOVERNMENT extraditing criminals to the US while willfully ignoring the fact China engages in ILLEGAL operations within your border.
This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. The concerns are “capitalist targeted advertising” vs “a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it’s people”.
Is lemmygrad leaking??
Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn’t get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.
First, neither coup was related to social media. Second, that’s a strawman
It really isn’t a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
- We shouldn’t allow American companies to spy either
- We should allow Chinese companies to spy too
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that’s not what it’s saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It’s complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team “win”, at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you’re going with interpretation #2, because of this:
First, neither coup was related to social media.
If those coups weren’t related to social media, why bring them up? We’re discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you’re playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don’t.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias – but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.
I’m not a lemmygrad user. I’m simply stating facts?
There’s literally many recent news articles of Canadians getting in legal trouble from American companies because of the things they posted or things they downloaded.
The Canadian government isn’t handing me over to China or allowing China to come get me.
My comment is not even pro China. I’m just saying that nothing I say or do will allow China to put me in jail. Can’t say the same about America.
You should learn to read. I would prefer no one get my data, but it’s statistically safer for me for China to get it over an American company. However, no one should get it. Fuck shit American companies, fuck shit Chinese companies.
How is “getting in trouble with American companies” (i.e. getting banned from a platform for breaking their rules) worse than a foreign power trying to influence a countries people? You’re not going to jail for posting dumb bullshit lol
Who said about getting banned?
If I pirate Photoshop, Adobe could come for me if they really wanted to. Canada doesn’t care about piracy, you don’t need to use a VPN here, but if the American company Adobe really wanted at me, Canada would not stop them.
If I pirated some Chinese software
theretheir government couldn’t do shit to me.You know geohot, the guy sued by Sony for hacking the ps3? He was American, but that doesn’t change much. If he was Canadian, he would’ve been fucked just the same. Now if I hacked a Chinese console to enable piracy, literally nothing would happen to me.
If I made a threat on the Presidents life, I would be watched and potentially have American feds knocking on my door. If I threatened China, I would get upvotes and people would laugh.
You’re not really understanding what I’m saying. I’m assuming you’re American? The country where pretty much every massive company operates from? Well, the rest of the world hates that nearly everything we do is funneled back into the US.
Use Windows? MacOS? Android? iOS? Gmail? Outlook? Yahoo? Microsoft Office? Facebook? Instagram? Reddit?.. the list goes on.
Now imagine if 95% of your data was funneled into a different country. I’m sure you’d hate it. Especially with the state of American politics right now. Your country is dangerous.
I’m not American, I’m Canadian, and I never said that I’m cool with their government’s recent developments, but that doesn’t mean the Chinese government collecting and using your data to push it’s agenda on foreign citizens is better, that’s absolutely insane.
And your argument is that you want to freely and openly hack proprietary software and make threats on the US president’s life? Lol what the fuck.
Please tell me where China is pushing their agenda on me? My TikTok is full of American and Canadian creators, talking about technology, science, animals, and comedy. Also a bit of food.
That’s also not my argument, but congrats on missing the point.
If you don’t understand what I’m saying, that’s on you. I’m not having a back and forth about this any longer, I escaped Reddit because of that. You can go back there if you want to argue and mix words with others. I’m not having that.
Don’t waste your time, the guy is a troll. Just look at the comment history.
US is the foreign power that has the most influence on people in Canada dummy.
No, the US is the foreign power who’s culture has the biggest influence on people in Canada, there’s no tangible reason to believe that big US tech companies are feeding your data to the US government and taking orders on how to influence it’s people. Tech companies in the US have shown time and time again that they have no interest in working with the US government (a problem of itself) and every piece of user data handed over has been through a court order.
TikTok has failed numerous global security audits and there’s reason to believe that they’re tied directly to the Chinese government and being used by the Chinese government to influence foreign citizens via misinformation and the removal of “anti-Chinese” material.
Yeah yeah, both are bad, sure, but one is worse and it’s direct Chinese government influence. Anyone that says otherwise is a troll or needs to seriously practice some basic critical thinking skills.
US is the foreign power whose culture, money, media companies, and oligarchs have the biggest influence on Canada. This is the country that constantly meddles in Canadian politics. Meanwhile, we know perfectly well after Snowden leaks that US companies very much do work with US government, and one has to be an utter ignoramus to claim otherwise.
Meanwhile, numerous audits have shown that the type of data TikTok collects is exactly the same as any other major social media platform. Stop spreading misinformation here.
Thinking that there is any equivalence between the amount of influence US and China have on Canada is sheer idiocy, and your woefully misinformed comment inadvertently highlights the problem. You should take your own advice and practice some critical thinking skill as not to make a 🤡 of yourself in public in the future.
Meanwhile, we know perfectly well after Snowden leaks that US companies very much do work with US government, and one has to be an utter ignoramus to claim otherwise.
As I previously said, this was data they were ordered to hand over, which is obviously problematic, but since then E2EE has been implemented all over big tech while they’ve fought against backdoor access. While this is obviously self-serving and only because of global backlash, it proves that these tech companies have no interest in working for the US government. Your statements are surface level depth and show a real lack of understanding on this subject.
Meanwhile, numerous audits have shown that the type of data TikTok collects is exactly the same as any other major social media platform. Stop spreading misinformation here.
Stop sliding the conversation. I never said they collected more data, I said they’ve failed security audits and there is reason to believe they are willingly handing it over the Chinese government and taking direction from the Chinese government.
Thinking that there is any equivalence between the amount of influence US and China have on Canada is sheer idiocy, and your woefully misinformed comment inadvertently highlights the problem.
Lol again, as I said, you’re mistaking culture influence for foreign government influence.
You’re continuously sliding the conversation into trying to make it sound like I feel like US tech has no issues while being critical of Chinese tech. I am critical of both, however I’m not an “utter ignoramus” lmao and I can recognize how fucking stupid of a statement “I prefer China to have my data” is.
I’m gunna go with Chinese propaganda troll for you!
Edit: Hahaha called it. Check out this dude’s posts, it’s all Chinese and anti-west propaganda.
i’d rather be spied on by an allied country, or my own, than a somewhat hostile country.
If you’re being honest to yourself, when your own country is spying on you it might have a bigger impact on you than a country you might visit for a week or never.
…why?
I’d rather be spied on by a far away country than by one with armed bastards on my street
I’d rather not be spied on.
The key difference is that American Government agencies don’t have access to the information TikTok steals from its users.
Edit: This comment implied the US has easy access to the data from companies like Facebook.
This is naive. America has all the laws they need to get data from private companies, just the same as China
Sure, but there’s a difference between having the potential to do something, and actively doing it. I’m aware the FBI/CIA can get my data from Google if they want it, but something would have to trigger them into wanting to investigate me. With a Chinese company there is no “if”, all of the data goes straight to the CCP. Tencent, the bloated multimedia company, even had a moment of ironic hypocrisy where they didn’t want to give away all of their users’ data.
The US and UK governments have literally that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
You should probably read your own links. It only reinforces what I said. Also, I’m thankfully not American.
I assume you’re referring to the fact that it claims to be based on court orders
You might want to look into what the FISA court counts as oversight
And thanks to Snowden revelations we know for a fact that US companies work directly with US government and share all their user data.
Can’t we just say that both are bad?
politicians are actively talking about banning tiktok. let me know when they do the same for twitter, instagram, reddit, facebook, tinder, youtube, google, amazon, and every other US site that does the exact same snooping that tiktok does. THEN we can say “both are bad”.
I think you’ve got it backwards. If we can’t acknowledge that both are bad before talking about banning them, then what justification do we have for banning them?
Both are bad.
But only one is a national security threat.
Depends on the perspective
Is it the one that radicalizes people into white supremacist terrorism?
Has everyone forgotten when Zuck was brought before congress and grilled about Facebook? True, the reps merely embarrassed themselves through their own ignorance, but being ineffectual is not the same as hypocracy.
Lol yeah politicians haven’t exactly been abstaining from grandstanding about domestic social media giants.
