Please do not say anything hateful to the Lemmy.ml admins or the developers. Before commenting on this thread, please read the post completely.
We (ani.social) have been defederated from Lemmy.ml a few hours ago presumably for the reason of being “full of CSAM” which I disagree.
What happened?
The Lemmy developers recently launched the new redesigned join-lemmy.org webpage which provides information about Lemmy and a list of servers that people can join. The redesign looks great! It details a lot of new and useful stuff such as a categorized server list and mobile apps. However, I noticed that our instance (ani.social) was not in the list despite previously being there before the redesign.
After looking through the joinlemmy-site code, I discovered that ani.social was added to the “excluded” list in a commit a few weeks ago. I thought that this was a mistake so I made a pull request to remove us from the excluded list (and also to add our instance’s category and language).
Unfortunately, the pull request was closed with a comment that reads “No, that is full of CSAM”. The thread was locked so I couldn’t reply. I tried to reach out to the developers via Matrix, politely explaining that ani.social has a content policy rule against CSAM which reads:
- Do not submit content depicting a child (both real and virtual) engaged or involved in explicit sexual activities. A child is defined as a person who is under 18 years old; or a person, regardless of age, who is presented, depicted or portrayed as under 18 years old.
Unfortunately, my invitation was rejected and I did not hear back from them.
Shortly after, I discovered that Lemmy.ml had defederated from ani.social. The last post ani.social received from Lemmy.ml was just after the pull request was closed.
What does this mean?
This means that no user from ani.social can interact with communities from Lemmy.ml and vice versa. This affects those who subscribe to communities from that instance.
This also affects the anime community on Lemmy as a whole because the biggest anime discussion community resides on Lemmy.ml ([email protected]) in which their episode discussion bot, @[email protected], is hosted here. It’s very concerning that as an anime-themed instance, we’re now completely disconnected from this community and other related communities.
This also affects ani.social in the long run as our exclusion from the join-lemmy.org webpage will reduce our visibility. The exclusion from join-lemmy.org and defederation from Lemmy.ml may also prompt other instance admins to defederate from us. Generally, ani.social will be seen in a very bad light.
As the admin of ani.social, I genuinely feel heartbroken after what had happened. Not only do I feel like I’m doing a poor job of building ani.social but I also feel like I’ve disrespected the work of the Lemmy developers. I really apologize to those who are affected by this. I hope that this is just a misunderstanding and I will do my best to resolve this problem.
As the admin of ani.social, I genuinely feel heartbroken after what had happened. Not only do I feel like I’m doing a poor job of building ani.social but I also feel like I’ve disrespected the work of the Lemmy developers.
You shouldn’t take this personally. The lead lemmy devs, nutomic and dessalines, are completely unhinged redfash. In addition to lemmy.ml, they also own lemmygrad.ml, the completely mask-off tankie instance. Tankies often have a weird hatred of anime fans, which is likely what inspired the defederation. In any case, they were never going to hear you out.
Nutomic and dessalines have a habit of engaging in this kind of self-marginalizing petty tyrant behavior, and many people avoid them and lemmy.ml because of their authoritarian, genocidal politics. While this is unfortunate overall, it does provide a fair amount of incentive to fork the project, and should provide a significant boost to any competent fork. Nutomic and dessalines aren’t exactly brilliant programmers or project managers, and their presence is more of a hindrance than a help at this point.
Nutomic and dessalines aren’t exactly brilliant programmers or project managers, and their presence is more of a hindrance than a help at this point.
from what position are you saying this from?
Sure, they have controversial political views but they’ve contributed so much to making an open social platform, and I don’t think it’s fair to disregard their efforts like this.
I truly think FOSS software is one of the few fields where different people with different backgrounds and views can contribute their opinions, and it’s sad seeing posts like this.
To be clear, I’m not saying that they’re bad programmers, or that their code contributions are harmful. They’d probably be fine as contributors, but having them in charge is significantly detrimental.
In general, ideological authoritarians should be kept away from even the most minor positions of power, whether they be tankies, nazis, theocrats, or what have you. Even disregarding the potential harms that they seek to inflict on the world, they’re just constitutionally incapable of handling these roles well.
I’m confident that the threadiverse will eventually route around this particular damage, it’s just a question of how long it will take, and how much our momentum is impeded in the meantime.
different people with different backgrounds and views can contribute their opinions
Care to elaborate? Sure, I’m all for tolerance, but certain opinions shouldn’t remotely be entertained.
You don’t have to apologize for this, and you’re doing great at managing this instance.
I recall a post on another instance I wanna say about a month ago where there was a big defed list with a bunch of instances erroneoussly marked for CSAM or extremist content. Big lists like that can have malicious actors fuck with the list for whatever reason, and that can poison the well later down the line for others.
It’s possible this instance was flagged as bad by someone with a dislike of anime for whatever reason and now it’s being treated as fact rather than actually be checked up on
It’s not you, it’s them. Frankly, the sooner the Lemmyverse decentralizes away from those awful devs the better. They’re the main reason I went with a kbin instance as my home instance.
Maybe I’m blind but I’ve seen almost no NSFW stuff on ani.social, let alone CSAM/loli content. Even the stuff I’ve seen marked as NSFW is just risque art usually. Feels like they just decided we’re an anime community so we must be spreading that stuff.
It sucks but it is what it is, I can’t say I personally subscribed to any lemmy.ml communities anyway. I definitely don’t think it’s anything you’ve personally done or failed to do, never had any issues with any of the content or people on this instance!
I disagree with this decision, I never saw a single piece of CSAM coming from ani.social, or the devs backing up their claim that ani.social would have CSAM, and honestly I do not think that ani.social admins did anything wrong, so… here I am.
I think that, at this point, we’re bound to need to use multiple accounts to access all content that we want. This might get better over time; but for now I wish that I could merge the feeds of multiple accounts.
Same. I think this makes my fourth account across different lemmy instances due to the tangled web of federation/defederation. I hope that this can spur some activity on this instance. I plan on making posts on both for a little while until things shake out (I have been making the weekly discussion posts on .ml and will now do that here as well). This doesn’t really leave a good taste in my mouth though and I would prefer that the anime community move off of .ml. So, I will work on building a community for them to move into.
I wouldn’t be upset over this, since the lemmy.ml admins’ moral compass is completely fucked up to begin with. For instance, they’re working with another tankie lead dev who literally called multiple times to murder Israeli civilians by saying stuff like “all Israeli civilians are valid targets”, “there are no civilians in Israel” or “anything that moves and isn’t Palestinian is a valid target” (not even paraphrasing here), and they’re talking about hiring him with the donations, meaning they implicitly condone what he said. People who called them out for being extremists were right.
Post sources amd acreenshots for claims like these if you can. And fuck the lemmy tankie developers. Cannot wait for a fork to appear run by normal people. They won’t see a penny of my money.
Post sources amd acreenshots for claims like these if you can
The receipts are here: https://lemmy.ca/post/6892121
Thank you, that’s very useful.
As the admin of ani.social, I genuinely feel heartbroken after what had happened. Not only do I feel like I’m doing a poor job of building ani.social but I also feel like I’ve disrespected the work of the Lemmy developers. I really apologize to those who are affected by this. I hope that this is just a misunderstanding and I will do my best to resolve this problem.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement that you’re doing a poor job
yall have preemptively made guidelines against CSAM and afaik I haven’t seen that on ani.social👍
the fact that they’re not even willing to communicate is real unfortunate for them as I think they’re missing out of a great community as I’ve seen some high-level debates and conversations
Ex:
Steins;Gate’s Brilliant Time Travel Theory and Plot ExplainedSteins;Gate Time Travel Concepts Explained | Anime Science
the Haruhi problem - 25yr permutational math problem
What is Truth? - Philosophy in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
I’m confused why you link to elsewhere as examples of - what I thought your point was - discussions of this instances community/on this instance
That’s a great question and I wish I could’ve answered this earlier:
unfortunately my course took the majority of my time and I’ve been putting off this as I wanted to provide a well-thought out/useful response.
I provided links that demonstrates anime’s potential to generate and encourage interesting and intelligent discussions.
The reality is that I’ve yet to see this kind of high level anime-conversations on Lemmy as it’s still new and the community is still growing.
My hope with this post was to provide evidence of “what could be” if ani.social was encouraged to grow as lemmy.ml could also benefit from the shared federation: [in which it wouldn’t really matter what home server/instance that a user chose as their start].With the refederation from lemmy.world and lemmy.dbzer0.com I still think that this possibility can happen where users can intermingle and help encourage the community to grow and become a place where people want to hang out and do some cool shit.
anyways thanks for the wait and hope my response was meaningful to you
also thanks for the retrospective comment! 👍
Would be interresting to hear a statement from dessalines
Who? Is that a person?
Lemmy dev who runs lemmy.ml
Sorry to hear this, sounds horrible. I wish people would not spur shit thats eaten up like its candy. There is supposed tonbe evidence for claims such as this. Real sad that the fear is holding people so strongly that they would rather defederate 100 instances that are innocent than see any evidence.
I hope all works out for you guys.
People who are not tankies would rather defederate from lemmy.ml than you.
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