[Announcement] Lemmy.World and lemmy.dbzer0.com has defederated from ani.social - AniSocial
ani.social
To anyone who is not familiar with the situation, please read our previous post [https://ani.social/post/863176] for context. Please do not say anything hateful toward the concerned instances’ admins. — ## What happened? A few hours ago, Lemmy.World and lemmy.dbzer0.com has defederated from ani.social [https://defed.xyz/check/ani.social], following the events of Lemmy.ml defederating from ani.social on November 3 [https://ani.social/post/863176]. Lemmy.World has given a censure on Fediseer [https://gui.fediseer.com/instances/detail/ani.social] with the reason being “loli”. lemmy.dbzer0.com [http://lemmy.dbzer0.com] has not given a reason for defederation as of the moment. We disagree with anyone claiming that ani.social intentionally and knowingly hosts CSAM. We would like to remind everyone that ani.social has a content policy regarding CSAM content [https://ani.social/legal] since day one. Specifically, our content policy states the following: > 7. Do not submit content depicting a child (both real and virtual) engaged or involved in explicit sexual activities. A child is defined as a person who is under 18 years old; or a person, regardless of age, who is presented, depicted or portrayed as under 18 years old. To provide some context, the Lemmy developers excluded ani.social from the recently launched join-lemmy.org redesign without any clear reason provided [https://github.com/LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site/commit/d17c4d7d2fbeafb6e39000332d0ac21499de5b47]. My pull request to remove ani.social from the exclude-list was denied for the reason being that ani.social is “full of CSAM” [https://github.com/LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site/pull/266]. Shortly after, ani.social was defederated from Lemmy.ml [http://Lemmy.ml]. The full story may be found on the previous thread [https://ani.social/post/863176]. Numerous threads have since spawned, many of which have comments state that there is no evidence of the claim that ani.social is “full of CSAM” and that the decision was unfair. These threads include: - https://ani.social/post/863176 [https://ani.social/post/863176] - https://lemmy.ml/post/7406051 [https://lemmy.ml/post/7406051] - https://lemmy.world/post/7714824 [https://lemmy.world/post/7714824] - https://sh.itjust.works/post/8411770 [https://sh.itjust.works/post/8411770] - https://lemmy.ml/post/7437529 [https://lemmy.ml/post/7437529] We respectfully ask the admins of Lemmy.World, lemmy.dbzer0.com [http://lemmy.dbzer0.com], and Lemmy.ml [http://Lemmy.ml] to review the situation and our policies, and consider reversing your decision if there is no evidence that ani.social intentionally and knowingly hosts CSAM. ## What now? If you are a user of ani.social and wish to see content from Lemmy.World and lemmy.dbzer0.com [http://lemmy.dbzer0.com], we kindly ask you to move to a different instance that is federated with all three instances. If you are a user of Lemmy.World or lemmy.dbzer0.com [http://lemmy.dbzer0.com] and wish to see content from ani.social, we kindly ask you to send a request to your respective admins to reverse their decisions after reviewing the situation. To all other Fediverse instance admins, we kindly ask you to carefully review our instance and its policies before defederating from us. To all ani.social users, please do not forget to report content that violates our content policy [https://ani.social/legal]. ## My personal thoughts As the admin of ani.social, I sincerely apologize to all our users regarding the defederation from three major Lemmy instances. I believe that this is my fault for not communicating our policies clearly enough. I will continue working toward a solution regarding this matter so please be patient. Thank you for reading this, and I appreciate everyone’s support.

The comments section is ultimate drama. 😹😹

  • Antik 👾@lemmy.world
    246·
    1 year ago

    Just fyi. You have [email protected] in this thread using his alt @[email protected] here. He is moderator on known pedo and Loli instance burgitt.moe and he has been very angry at us at Lemmy World for calling him out.

    He now pretends that it is not his account even though CJO obviously stands for CookieJarObserver, he also speaks German and he is defending the person that is ‘totally not him’.

    Pretty sure he is using at least one other account here to play stupid - Amillionnames. This user popped up around the same time CJO had his accounts banned and is always in the same threads. And now they are having conversations pretending they are not the same person.

    Yes I am all over this thread with my alt (because I could not talk to him from my LW account since he is banned) but it all just clicked. He was in every thread that mentions LW talking shit with his alts which made me wonder why he would not give his main account so this could be reviewed.

    Now we know.

    https://burggit.moe/u/cookiejarobserver

    Bye

    • AMillionNames
      73·
      1 year ago

      Just to clarify, I created this account at the same time I became aware of https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/554307/Just-wanted-a-warning-Lemmy-World-is-perhaps-worse-than-reddit to avoid risks with my main when making this thread http://web.archive.org/web/20231107221038/https://sh.itjust.works/comment/4632925 . I have already explained why in several threads, but this is the first time he’s brought up these accusations directly while evading my concerns regarding the original OP I was alluding to.

      This is the first time Antik is accusing me of being this user, but he has also accused me of being someone else here: http://web.archive.org/web/20231107174821/https://sh.itjust.works/comment/5160618 Apparently it is easier to suggest I’m someone else there and now someone entirely different here without providing any evidence than to answer the reply I left hanging in the thread I’ve linked.

      It must be nice to be able to make accusations without having to provide or worry about archiving evidence.

      • AMillionNames
        31·
        1 year ago

        Apparently they just decided to ban me without proof regardless.

        admin Banned @[email protected] reason: CJO Alt.

        Fortunately, because I was not an account on lemmy.world, no comment has really been affected, just their visibility.

        I can’t speak for accusations I’m not aware off, but the only reason I’m here is because I was following lemmy.world admin’s comment history, saw one of them trolling this thread with emoticons, and decided to participate in it by doing what they should have had the competence to do, linking to their own explanation elsewhere. After becoming acquainted with the thread, I also added my two cents about my own experiences with abusive mods, which the comments on this thread are becoming a very good example of, and then I became aware of the flame wars the lem.ee antik account was engaging with.

        Thank you, Antik, for confirming what https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/554307/Just-wanted-a-warning-Lemmy-World-is-perhaps-worse-than-reddit (if it’s not working, here’s the archive ) made me suspect. Sane admins don’t go around the thread linking to pedo lemmy instances, they don’t get engaged in flame wars, they get in contact with admins and moderators and resolve the problems professionally and with the responsibility that they power they’ve decided to adopt requires.

        Antik and the aptly self-professed clueless_stoner have behaved exactly like the abusive power mods I complained about.

        They aren’t kids, one of them is at least a grown man in their 40s with an extensive web development career, not that the world isn’t full of examples where this clearly isn’t enough for maturity or ethics. Even when they are acting completely different, even when they seem completely nice, even when they are completely agreeing with you about abusive mod practices, it won’t matter when they decide they don’t like you and the paranoia kicks in.

        They live in a narcissistic world were they are completely unable of doing wrong so any suspicion is right. Antik made his accusations 10 hours before he decided to ban me, yet still delayed that much, and he already knew of me around ~20 days ago and had responded several times, before this thread with a different excuse. I can’t do anything more than link to archives, it’s not like I can pull non-existing server logs. Their claims do not have evidence, and don’t expect them to be transparent about it. After all, this was too much for them to accept as criticism.

        If there ever comes a time when you decide to criticize the lemmy.world administration, don’t be surprised if this ends up being you. I don’t know if it’s the drugs they are on or what, but all it takes is a bullshit accusation, a paranoid suspicion of coincidences that they themselves create. I don’t even know if they are doing this consciously, but at this point, they must be at some level.

        I don’t envy the jobs of admins and mods, but acting like a shithead will make people follow you just as people who violate the rules. That has always been the problem with protests, even small ones, but that does not mean it’s the same bad actor organizing it. My best advice is not to act like a shithead, and fortunately, most lemmy admins aren’t. Unfortunately, lemmy.world admins, those of the most populated lemmy instance, are.

        Oh, and let’s not forget the claims directly from the horse’s mouth, Izzy, who was a moderator who worked with the admin team. I wasn’t too sure about their claims because of their severity, but now they make all the sense in the world:

  • mateomaui@reddthat.comEnglish
    182·
    1 year ago

    Wait… doesn’t it say they refederated?

    It looks like an update to a post titled when defederation happened before?

  • russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.netEnglish
    7·
    1 year ago

    This is one of the biggest issues with having a large part of the user-base end up on the same instance(s).

    I do fear that the Fediverse, since this problem happens on all of the federated services I’ve seen, is one day going to end up just like Reddit/Twitter/etc. Maybe not in the exact same fashion (hopefully), but similar in many ways.

    Which is not to say that I don’t appreciate the people behind these communities for all that they contribute, don’t get me wrong. But we’re eclipsing a precipice that is going to be difficult to come back from.

    It’s a tough problem, and honestly I don’t know what the solution is. It’s not as simple as “don’t have big instances”, but the current situation isn’t really ideal either.

  • Socsa
    136·
    1 year ago

    And people keep saying that it doesn’t matter that the admins of the largest subs are insane people. It’s very clear that they intend to use their influence to shape the fediverse and create walled gardens around anything from political ideology to inane biases.

    It’s critically important to call them out on this shit. It doesn’t do much, but it’s better than doing nothing.

  • Butts@ani.social
    104·
    1 year ago

    I posted this comment on ani.social and got banned from Lemmy.world:

    Who even cares, fuck those guys.

    Lemmy.world revealed how far they have their heads jammed waaaaaay up their own assholes when they released their new TOS and were patting themselves on the back about it. Then, in true Le Reddit fashion, anyone in the comments section who dared to question that decision was getting mass down voted by brainless sycophants. Lemmy.world got lucky by being the most visible and attracting the most users this past summer, but it doesn’t make them inherently special, which they clearly now believe they are.

    The Fediverse is a new opportunity for internet discussion to feel free and open again rather than confined by kowtowing to corporate interests. These instances defederating from ani.social is forewarning to any users with their heads up that they are just places to avoid anyway.

    Now, regardless of whether you agree with my stance or not, or if for some reason you are offended by the fuck word, is criticism of policy seriously an offense so egregious that it warrants a ban?

    Of course it isn’t.

    And before somebody tries to cleverly point out “hurr durr you sound butthurt because you got banned from LW” that’s not at all the point I am making here. I’m pointing out the sheer insecure pettiness of the administration at LW that they would get so bent out of shape from some criticism from a throwaway account that they would ban it on the spot.

    Ask yourselves if you really want to make LW your home base, because I do not.

    Edit: also lol at Antik, a LW admin, coming to this comments section on an alt account and arguing with people. Dozens of testy, sparring comments bordering on harassment. This is the exact immature behavior that I am calling out. He had to literally do nothing to get a win here, yet he deliberately chose to show his ass to everyone instead.

    Edit 2: LW banned every user in this thread who posted a criticism of their insecurity, pettiness, irrationality and cognitive dissonance of thinking that “pictures of anime” are somehow all CSAM. They have brigaded this post - roughly 50% of the 100 comments here are from the admin or his alt literally harassing people simply because they stated they do not like LW. These are not the actions of sound-minded individuals, these are the actions of actually insane people.

    • finthechat@kbin.social
      5·
      1 year ago

      Curious that this exact comment thread looks so different on Lemmy.ca (original instance) versus how it appears on Lemmy World.

      At the time of posting this, the original thread has 13 comments as opposed to the sanitized version on Lemmy World, which has 6 comments. Naturally, all of the comments critical of LW do not appear on their version.

      • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
        41·
        1 year ago

        You sure it’s not just because those comments were submitted by ani.social users during the period which the instances were defederated from each other?

        • finthechat@kbin.social
          6·
          1 year ago

          It’s from manual bans, not defederation. Both [email protected] (the parent comment in this chain) and [email protected] (commenter providing a critical summary of why people are upset) are banned at LW.

          At the time of writing this comment, by looking at the LW modlog you can see Butts was banned 3 hours ago because “fuck those guys” and 17 hours ago CJOTheReal was banned because “LW admins are assholes.”

          I am guessing those ban reasons are quotes from the banned users themselves, not the actual reason why an admin personally banned them, though that hardly makes it justifiable - in fact it does the opposite by proving that LW admins actually are power tripping and banning for petty reasons.

      • [email protected]@lemm.ee
        37·
        1 year ago

        Because people that are banned on LW love to chime in on threads about LW with their totally sane and objective takes.

        But that’s why there are more comments on this thread than if you would look at this thread from LW.

    • AMillionNames
      61·
      1 year ago

      Ask yourselves if you really want to make LW your home base, because I do not.

      That was sort of my thinking as well. I’ve been trying to get a clear answer for a ban that archived everything to show that they were just banned for criticism, and I haven’t gotten a direct answer other than a claim that contradicts the evidence.

      Purging an account, banning it, and then allowing them to sweep everything under the ban rug is a direct attack on the credibility of user accounts, and I can understand people not trusting a server with it when they do that, and it’s even worse when those admins are capable of being charismatic so people are much less keen to question them.

      That’s something that abusive power mods on reddit did all the time. They tried to sweep everything under the ban rug, keep quiet about it and only give out vague reasons, and then just label the user a shithead when they inevitably then had to proceed to try to scale it up, which meant trying to attract more attention, which made people question them more, which just swept them up with the people that really deserved it, and it just became a vicious cycle.

      The one big tell is that when somebody really deserves it, they don’t really hide it, whereas when its much more questionable, they keep so quiet that you have to wonder whether the person in question killed anyone, which just adds to it.

  • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.netEnglish
    62·
    1 year ago

    I quickly moved my main account to a new instance back when it was shown how more users in a single instance slowed everything down. If it ever came down to it, I would just run my own instance to be able to control what I can and cannot see instead of letting someone else choose for me.