Alleged prospective sex buyers in this scheme first had to respond to a survey and provide information online, including their driver’s license photos, their employer information, credit card information, and they often paid a monthly fee to be part of this.”
Wait, what? (͡•_ ͡• )
That should make the prosecutors jobs much easier.
Wow, imagine willingly providing that information to what you know is a criminal organization. The people who signed up are obviously a major security hazard to whoever they work for.
Yeah. This is the real issue here.
Sex work should be legal and the morality discussion here is about people lying to their spouses and if anybody is being forced into sex work… all interesting topics.
But anybody implicated in this situation needs all security clearances and access dropped because they are high risk morons.
It’s signing up to a blackmail scheme.
…to get your dick wet
Oh, well in that case will you need me to provide my clearance number as well?
Obviously it’s the sex workers that are going to jail for this, for tricking all these high level citizens.
Or better yet, we actually publicly prosecute them, or at least “accidentally” leak the list
I’m guessing this is prostitution with extra steps to make sure they can wiggle out of it, but if we actually held them to consequences things would get better quickly
100%. I wouldn’t even give all that information to my online pharmacist and I need some of those medications to survive.
Yeah my employer don’t need to know fuckall about what meds I’m on.
Seriously. How dumb do you need to be to be in an actual high ranking (government) position and willingly give up all that info to an even slightly shady organisation? Never mind an illegal prostitution network you are sure is both illegal and easily blackmailable.
Say something is exclusive and idiots will do anything to get in.
Facebook got so huge because at first you had to be in college to be on it. After a couple years they opened it up to everyone and pretty much everyone signed up.
Doesn’t always work. See Google+.
how horny*
The ease of prosecuting is directly proportional to how wealthy and influential the accused is.
Remember, it’s a legal system … not a justice system … you can easily distinguish the difference by how wealthy you are (or are not)
Sad but true
Could be a honey pot. Either the guys running it wanted to use the info to blackmail the clientele or sell the info to foreign intelligence
Or they use it for further identity fraud to open new locations.
I’m guessing it was that one P411 website or whatever. That site has been in the news in the past. It baffles me that people would willingly comply with such invasive identification requirements for something that’s illegal. I get the idea behind it is to try and prove that you’re not a cop/murdery type of criminal in order to protect the sex workers, but… yeah, lol.
Criminals and criminals masquerading as religions love to get blackmail on their clientele/members, it’s probably the more lucrative part of their enterprise, and it keeps those members/clientele loyal, because who wants their nasty ass secrets leaked out or sold to their enemies?
Not really, because the people who made the survey are probably smart enough to not include anything about exchanging money for sex. Basically, there’s nothing illegal about filling out a survey about who you are and what are your likes or dislikes. There’s also nothing illegal for someone to pay another person for their time.
So no mention of exchanging money for sex and it’s incredibly hard to prosecute.
No idea if you’re right or not but that’s not what I meant. I meant they don’t have to hunt down the johns, the johns already provided all the possible info the prosecutors would need to find them.
I think what the person above was implying is that having your name on that list is not de-facto evidence of participation. I’m sure the DOJ has more than just that one piece of evidence if they’ve already made arrests, because sex workers in America are nothing if not extremely careful about how they conduct their business to avoid exposing themselves or their clients to law enforcement stings.
Hell, if they’re actually smart, they have red herrings in the list that muddies who is actually a client
How exactly does that help? It’s not like they are going to do stake outs on these guys. It’s not enough probable cause for any type of warrant or anything.
It would help support a case if you already had one, but as an entry point it’s all but completely useless, if not actually completely useless.
Which is why they won’t release the names, because doing so would open them up to lawsuits. All risk no reward.
None of that’s illegal, aside from the card info it’s actually a lot of the things a trustworthy sex worker will be asking you for as a background check before agreeing to meet you.
deleted by creator
Why is sex work even illegal in the first place.
Selling is legal, fucking is legal, why isn’t selling fucking legal?
– George Carlin
Seas he also the fella that said “Getting paid for sex is illegal… UNLESS YOU RECORD IT!”
For years I’ve contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn.
We have a building and several “sets” with cameras recording, customer picks their “partner” and “set” and “shoot the porn”, after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server).
The customer isn’t paying for sex, they are paying for the video.
Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases.
But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it’s video taped so you won’t beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn
Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video?
Not to mention the possible tie ins…imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans… Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people’s Webcam sites.
“remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome’s sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure”
They get the only copy… I don’t care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun.
You could burn it to a dvd or whatever, delete the file, and give the customer the only copy. Whether they choose to keep it or destroy it is their own choice.
The underlying assumption is the same as in abortion: that women can’t be entrusted with agency over their own bodies.
Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Studies across Europe have shown that countries that outlaw prostitution see a decrease in human trafficking victims while countries that legalized or decriminalized it see an increase.
Unlike with drugs, you don’t just create a way to increase the supply. A very small minority of women actually want to engage in sex work. And the few who do, usually envision the high class escort lifestyle. But working in a brothel charging $100 per client isn’t something many want to do.
But legalizing prostitution increases demand. Which makes it more profitable for criminals to utilize human trafficking to fill that demand.
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/
One source of it.
It also doesn’t help at all with protecting victims of human trafficking. Victims of human trafficking are already protected. But they don’t step forward because of threats against their own well being and that of their families. Something that doesn’t change just because their work technically is legal now.
Which leaves a small percentage of people who fall into financial hardship and consider prostitution as a method of overcoming said hardship. For them that might slightly improve their situation. But that still means exploiting vulnerable people and isn’t people engaging in sex work because they want to. And it’s even questionable if people in these scenarios would follow the legal way.
So while initially it might seem like legalizing it solves a lot of issues, it is more difficult than that.
I reckon that even though sex work is legalised, and still caused issues, the problem is that there is no government regulation. It’s one thing to say by the government that they won’t prosecute sex workers, but if it’s not regulated and abuse still happens then nothing changed for all intents and purposes. Best analogy I could think of is like allowing food factories to manufacture food, of course. But if there is no regulatory watchdog to monitor and test to make sure food factories are not putting random and dangerous stuff into food, then legalising an activity is pointless.
Basically, the sex industry having been legalised by many countries is unofficially a libertarian set up. Yeah, the government exists and allow sexual transactions between agreeing parties, but they’re hands off on how the practitioners in the industry would conduct business. There is no government agency for sex workers to complain to if they’re abused. I know people would ask, how exactly would the government regulate sex? That, I will leave to policy experts.
Edit: wording
I see this single study trotted out every time the subject comes up and the key factor to take into account is that this is reported trafficking. If legalized sex work means more light is shed on human trafficking that means more can be done about it.
key factor to take into account is that this is reported trafficking. If legalized sex work means more light is shed on human trafficking that means more can be done about it.
Just because more is reported doesn’t mean more isn’t also happening. In fact, one could reasonably expect reporting to go down as a percentage of incidents due to ordinary citizens not expecting sex workers to be involved in trafficking since sex work is now legal. That the number goes up after the stigma is removed seems to strongly indicate a correlation with a rise in actual trafficking.
More or less is a matter of comparison. How do you compare with an underground activity that cannot be tracked as easily?
How do you compare with an underground activity that cannot be tracked as easily?
As with anything, you can only work with the data you actually have.
Sure, but all you have is assumptions and you’re assuming the increased reporting of trafficking means that trafficking is increasing rather than it just getting caught more. It’s like when some governments fought over covid reporting. Keeping it hidden doesn’t mean less of it is happening and making it more visible doesn’t mean more of it is happening.
Sure, but all you have is assumptions
Isn’t that a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
Puritan values.
My bet is on America’s conservative puritan history where anything good is bad.
Also sex trafficking. At least that’s the argument for keeping it illegal. :(
Which is bollocks anyways because illegalization actually makes things less safe for all sex workers, but especially for trafficking victims who are now legally marginalized into dark number status
I believe the reason sex trafficking happens is because sex work is illegal.
Old white men elected themselves under the guise of voting (gerrymandering who?) and are too embarrassed and confused to allow women the rights they have as humans. Isn’t democracy silly.
I’d say the diagram of “Why is sex work illegal” and “Why is abortion illegal” is almost a perfect circle.
It’s about contolling other peoples’ bodies and weakening the separation of church and state.
AFAIK, it’s not federally illegal, but mostly every state bans it. As how Nevada can have prostitution.
You’re correct, it is not federally illegal in the US. Most things aren’t. Murder isn’t, either. However, traveling across state lines with a prostitute has gotten people in trouble with the federal government before.
woke af
What does woke even mean?
I think most people who’ve actually thought about it would say either “sensitivity to and awareness of the plight of marginalized people” or the same but with “oversensitivity”, depending on which side of it you’re on.
I’m assuming they’re arresting the sex workers and not the politicians and military officials?
Hopefully neither, and they’ll arrest the organizers/pimps/etc.
sex workers and clients should be the lowest priority.
You know what they say about hoping, you can hope in one hand and bang an escort in the other hand and see which hand fills up quicker.
3 individuals sounds like just the pimps.
They’d probably have to confirm identities to arrest those folks, and also prove they aren’t just getting name-dropped.
Just grabbing the pimps and workers is a lot easier and less case intense
Customers are not named in the affidavit, according to the agent, because
the investigation into their involvement is “active and ongoing.”these are the type of people who don’t get held accountable, ever.Accountable for what? Something that should be legal in the first place?
Do you also think marijuana users should be named and shamed?
It should be legal but it’s not. Those are government officials with clearances which put up their Driver’s licenses and credit card information on an illegal site to bang hookers. That’s the issue.
The “name and shame” argument is also meaningless. Take marijuana for example. If you’re a government official who is actively pushing for legalization and it comes up that you actually consume it… ok? Big news, you’re putting your mouth where your money is. Nobody cares, there’s no “shame” in being “named”. The issue comes when people are publicly against marijuana/prostitution and then engage in it. Those are hypocrites and should be shamed.
Or, you know, they don’t have any evidence that a crime actually was committed. These people aren’t morons and know that unless they are caught exchanging money for sex they are off the hook. The fact that they have their name in this group is not even remotely enough to even charge someone with a crime, let alone get a conviction.
deleted by creator
Decriminalize sex work
Legalize.
Except for Lady G.
I don’t give a shit what he does in his personal life. No one should. I care that he’s a bastards who’s fucked this nation for his own self interest.
Anybody remember that one piece about our servicemen being involved in trafficking women overseas about three years ago that was swept under the rug?
I only remember the rug as I’m supposed to.
To be fair, it did really tie the room together.
He pissed on the rug.
The client list will likely go in the same vault as Epstein’s. They’re all assets now.
They’re all assets now.
In the age of Trump, are those really assets anymore?
Seems like they’re moreso assets of a bygone era.
It does make one wonder who the real assets are.
I really don’t understand the way the US works in regards to „bought“ sex… on the one hand prostitution is illegal (with the exception of
Las Vegasparts of Nevada) and as soon as you point a camera on the paid fucking it is called PORN and it is still a multi billion dollar industry.You guys are weird
Edit: changed the Las Vegas part
Prostitution isn’t legal in Vegas. Parts of Nevada yes, but in Clark county where Las Vegas is located prostitution is illegal.
That’s more insane than what the original comment pointed out.
It’s very bizarre. Kinda shocking the gov’t hasn’t figured out the massive amount of tax revenue behind the legalization of sex workers.
Works in other countries at least. Here in Germany they just pay income tax, like everyone else. Actually they are freelancers usually…
On the other hand, Germany is still a bit backwards regarding cannabis legalization… but we are working on it.
Illegal income is taxed, technically, but paying that tax would also basically be a confession. That’s how they got mobsters back in the day. So there ends up not being any when you’re right and there absolutely could be good tax revenue there
Hell, it’s not federally banned, so it’s just states not being willing.
deleted by creator
There are porn producers who do such a crappy job that I’d swear they only film so they have legal access to prostitution.
Like 90% of OF “fan meets” are filmed fucks because it’s actually prostitution. Pretty sad they can’t be honest because some people had weir hangups hundreds of years ago
It started a few centuries ago when this annoying group of people known as Puritans were expelled from their home country and sailed to north America.
The natives saved them from starvation and today still impose their beliefs and values on everybody. These hypocritical laws is but one example
They were not expelled from anywhere. They wanted to impose their religious doctrine on everyone else but every government keep telling them to fuck off.
I don’t believe they were expelled?
I might be wrong…
It’s easy to get confused because a lot of people who left England did so because they had no other prospects or no other choice, in the case of criminals or financial delinquents.
Reading up on the founding of the US is a doozy. Essentially, all the rejects of England sailed to the ‘New World’ because there was more opportunity for them there than at home.
The ones who had it good stayed in England.
The Puritans were a small sect, just looking for the religious freedom to punish the best majority of people who didn’t believe the Puritans’ theology. Their notion of “religious freedom” is similar to the U.S. Catholic bishops’ notion. It’s a violation of religious freedom when people can make their own choices, and don’t have to obey a hierarchy.
Basically all the founders and settlers were groups who were too weird for Europe lol
What’s weird is that loophole exists and people don’t abuse it.
Like, I get the streetwalkers selling $10 BJs dont, but for “high end” organizations like this, just stick an old school camcorder in the room and let the John keep whatever grainy unidentifiable footage they make during the encounter.
If you’re ever investigated, you’re in the clear. If not, then no one even has to know.
Nah. A group tried this in Pensacola and got busted. Can’t remember the details, but they were trying to pass prostitution off as pr0n because camera. Didn’t fly.
I bet employment fraud would have a bigger jail sentence than prostitution.
deleted by creator
Not las Vegas, rural parts of Nevada
I’m sure they’ll be arresting and charging the politicians any and revoking security clearances any moment now…
In this day and age where nothing stays secret, how is it hard for elected officials not do stupid stuff like visiting brothels?
In this day and age, why aren’t brothels and sex work legal?
Buddy, we’re still working on legalizing an absurdly common plant because for a while much of the country thought it was satanic or whatever.
“In this day and age,” in America, of course it’s not legal yet. That is gonna take a long time.
No, it’s not illegal because people thought it was evil. It was illegal because it allowed the government to jail black men and war protestors and throw away the key.
…And because the cotton industry didn’t want to compete with hemp. … and more recently booze companies don’t want to compete with weed
Yeah that isn’t true. Hemp is and always has been legal in many parts of the world and couldn’t compete with cotton for the bulk of applications.
My bad. I think I watched a documenrary on it like 15 years ago.
Wikipedia says 1937 marijuana tax act effectively stopped hemp from being able to compete with heavy taxation and greatly reduced production. Thou it also attributes dupont and newspaper and timber magnate William Hearst and not cotton as the killer.
Then in 1969 the courts struck down the Marijuana Taxation Act, but then the Controlled substances act of 1970 banned it all at a federal level.
So yeas still shady AF, just not Cotton being shady. My bad
LSD was made illegal because of war protesters
The plant legalization is happening relatively quickly all things considered. Its funny how fast the laws change the moment the rich pigs smell potential profits of a new industry and the pressure of missing out on pocketing some of that sweet sweet tax revenue neighboring states are collecting instead.
Sure, but it’s also taking longer than it should. It’s also, fundamentally, not hard for even many conservatives to accept as “not that bad.”
Legalized prostitution also has tremendous potential for new markets and profit, but it’s a lot harder for conservatives to accept compared to weed, as America is just too goddamn puritanical.
Christianity. By demonizing it they can still use it but get to get angry at the women who work there.
There’s a contingent of feminists who oppose prostitution for well being of the women reasons, too.
I wasn’t aware that it was not possible for women to hate women. Especially younger more prettier ones.
Good thing that never ever happens. Nope. Tall poppy syndrome is exclusively male.
because sex should not be a commodity in a healthy society.
A healthy society has healthy sex work.
The issue with sex work is that, due to its black market nature, it almost requires sex slavery.
There is no issue with people running onlyfans. Why? Because its legal, so those who want to do it can do so, and those forced into it feel safe going to the cops.
A regulated, legal, legally protected sex industry would eliminate a lot of the issues with sex work. Much harder to traffick people when you need to file their taxes and pass frequent random inspections, and less profitable to traffick people when a legal brothel legally takes your customers.
A healthy society has healthy sex work.
I disagree. I don’t think paying prostitutes to fuck you is an essential need of society.
There is no issue with people running onlyfans. Why? Because its legal
Are we really making the argument that because it’s legal it means it’s good?
A regulated, legal, legally protected sex industry would eliminate a lot of the issues with sex work. Much harder to traffick people when you need to file their taxes and pass frequent random inspections, and less profitable to traffick people when a legal brothel legally takes your customers
Just because some rules have negative externalities doesn’t automatically mean we should get rid of the rule.
Are we really making the argument that because it’s legal it means it’s good?
If you cant read, sure. But the actual argument you were given was making it legal makes it safe.
I dunno if you just dont pay attention, or what, but humans sell their bodies for a living. Not just for sex, but in general. Any society with work will have people who want to work by fucking.
Unless you think onlyfans is full of people held at gunpoint? No, those are people choosing to make that content, for compensation.
Making that content legal means legal requirements and restrictions to force sex work to be safe. I dont really care about your quaker fueled puritan ideals of “”“good”“” around sex, you can duke that out with your therapist. What I care about is making it safe.
I want hookers off the street, where they are victims of murder, kidnapping, sex slavery, drug use, etc etc etc. Legal sex work gets them off the street and out of the hands of pimps.
I want sex slaves freed, and no more kidnapped. Legal sex work drains the incentive of a sex black market, making it less profitable to sell someone into slavery when your would-be customers can get laid cheaper and legally.
I want stds under control. Illegal sex work spreads them like wildfire. Legal sex work requires regular testing and treatment for both parties, hampering the spread of disease.
People arent going to stop fucking, nor stop wanting money. Wake up or grow up about sex. Peoples lives are lost or ruined because of black market sex slavery. Legalizing sex work shines a light at that black market.
Sex work does not contribute anything to society other than creepy men getting their fix.
That’s not even remotely true.
Have you ever actually spoken to a sex worker before?
They primarily sell intimacy.
People are able to tell and be things around sex workers that they can’t be in their daily lives.
In one of your other posts, you said that sex shouldn’t be commodified. Well, we live in a society where EVERYTHING is commodified while simultaneously alienating people to perform their peak consumption.
Sex isn’t holy. It’s a need that we all have, like water, food, and oxygen. When you make it so that people who are bad at getting it can’t get it at all, you make a population of stressed out, deprived, and desperate people.
Sex workers bring so much more to the table than being a cum dump. A good sex worker gives you a safe place to be yourself and meet your base, primal needs. That’s not just valuable, that’s invaluable.
Like I said, you can save your creepy puritan cult bullshit for your therapist.
But Id like for less sex slaves in the world, thanks.
Says you.
Where else are they going to get sex? From the woman they live with that is laughably called their wife?
Look at Ted Cruz and tell me that there is a woman on the planet earth who will allow him inside her without money being exchanged.
Because elected officials are above the law until someone decides to blackmail them.
Power makes people hungry for more
Was it run by this lady?
Oh sure, blame the capitalist.
I’d blame the communist, but communism is just a red herring.
If the girls were sex trafficked I have a problem with this, if they were free to do as they please, then I have no issue with this.
Since it’s illegal and probably secret from their wives, it opens the client to blackmail, which isn’t good for the public if they’re in government or military.
Regardless of whether someone was trafficked, folks in positions of power chosing* to disregard the law is itself an issue.
Sex shouldn’t be illegal if it occurs between two consenting adults.
It shouldn’t. But if elected officials are breaking the law instead of fixing it, that is bad.
Consent can be hard to judge when you have wildly disparate financial powers.
Not really.
I’d give 0 shits if people in ‘positions of power’ smoked marijuana while it was illegal.
Heck, I’d support them for their civil disobedience!
Nothing in the article suggests it wasn’t consensual, but you never know
That is why the context matters.
Who would have thought it. A brothel in Watertown. Cambridge I can see. What’s next, strip clubs in Belmont, Mitt Romney’s home town?
And this is illegal and newsworthy why?
It’s because when people in highly-sensitive positions of power do things that they want to keep secret, they become a security risk by opening themselves up to the threat of blackmail.
Whether or not they should want to keep their whoring secret is a different matter between them and their families and their voters. I don’t have a censorious take on that, I’m just telling you why it’s a security risk and is newsworthy.
When will the government do something I actually want them to do? What a fuckin shit.
