You must log in or register to comment.
America sucks. Seriously. I’m just waiting for another country to bring it to the USA, because it seems inevitable.
People gotta stop putting faith into these ultimately crooked nations.
Will it be another country though? Seems like the power has shifted and is continuing to shift from the nation state.
I mean ok but the fact that your car is spying on you has to break a thousand big tech nda’s
Disappointing result but this seems like something for the legislature to fix. Courts aren’t always the solution, sometimes you have to just fix the damn law.
This is supposed to be covered by the fourthamendment but that’s been meaningless for over 20 years now
The “unlawful search and seizure” amendment? Why would that apply here?
Are you being serious? They release your data to the police if they ask
The Fourth Amendment will affect police, but it won’t restrict a random person who is given access to something from turning over whatever data they want to police.
Say I hire a painter, and the painter is painting my house’s interior, and sees a bloody knife in my house. He can report that to the police. But, remove the painter from the picture, and the police could not enter to look for such a thing absent a warrant.
'course, the flip side of that is that if the police get a warrant, then they can enter whether I want them in the house or not, whereas the painter can only enter because I choose to let him in.
That analogy is tired in the age of mass data collection without consent
I’m just telling you that that’s the way things legally are. You’re arguing about how you feel that they should be.
Is my car a random person? I thought it was an object that I own.
Youll own nothing and like it
Not just police, any armed investigatory unit or state sponsored militia. The idea of a “police” force was pretty vague at the time, so the umbrella covers much more than it initially intended to.
Which makes no difference in the provided example.
I never said it did, just a relevant fun fact.
You are implying that any data gathered will be delivered to the government upon request (unsure if you are implying with or without a warrant). If you can show me from this article, or even this case, regarding this privacy case that that happened, then yes I agree with you and the fourth amendment applies.
But this issue is between private entities which generally precludes amendments from being applicable. Specifically, the plaintiffs alleged that the infotainment systems collected and stored personal data without consent and violated Washington’s Privacy Act.
I’m not implying anything
An Annapolis, Maryland-based company, Berla Corporation, provides the technology to some car manufacturers but does not offer it to the general public, the lawsuit said. Once messages are downloaded, Berla’s software makes it impossible for vehicle owners to access their communications and call logs but does provide law enforcement with access, the lawsuit said.
But that would mean the politicians would have to actually work instead of photo ops and promises!!!
deleted by creator
I wonder how long until we get to jailbreak our cars just so those cock suckers can’t spy on us.
Technically you already can. I just hope you have extensive programming knowledge because you’re going to have to take an axe to the existing code.
May be able to find and remove whatever it’s using as a cellphone antenna.
Sorry your car just stopped working for “safety” reasons.
If that were the case, there would be traffic jams in tunnels across the country due to disabled cars.
Nah, it just detects the presence of the hardware.
But not the faraday cage around the telematics unit.
Yeah I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just not easy.
Well… fuck. More reason to not buy newer cars. At least you Americans are lucky. You can drive a dinosaur if it met with regulations. You technically don’t have to buy new cars… ever.
The scary thing? Define “new”. This judgment is from a lawsuit in 2014. So any car made in at least the last 9 years is doing this. Maybe newer cars are doing even worse things.
Yep.
This is why I keep my 2006 toyota in tip top shape. I will drive that car as long as I possibly can.
Really considering taking out a loan just to fix an old car instead of buying new.
I’ve been having dreams lately where I’m driving around in my old 1987 thunderbird that I got in 2003 when I was in high school. It wasn’t a great car and I was hoping my next vehicle could be electric, but maybe that’s a sign I need to be going backwards.
I’m taking my 2006 Avalon to 300k miles and beyond!
I’ve got a 2007 Kia that I’m planning to drive until I can’t fix it anymore
So far that’s proving to be a pretty easy given the cost and availability of parts
What’s the difference between never connecting your phone to a brand new high tech car and having no tech in an older car?
New car is still connected and is monitoring your driving habits, whether you wear a seatbelt or not, possibly recording your conversations, and even keeping track of your weight with the sensors in the seats.
And monitoring your location, don’t forget about that. You can tell a lot about a person just by seeing where they go every day.
this is why i don’t own a car
In my region, where public transport doesn’t exist much at all, if you don’t drive, you might not eat or work (the lucky few work remotely, but not all).
i’m sorry but are you commenting this for any reason other than to make yourself feel better about owning a car? i see people doing this all the time and i don’t get what other reason there would be to bring it up as the immediate response to comments about going car-free
yes, obviously you can’t live without a car if you need the car to live! but millions and millions of people would actively enjoy life more without a car.
I’m sorry, but are you being this snotty for any other reason than to make yourself feel better for being rude?
Delete this nephew
So ask the judge why car companies want to track judges?
One of these companies needs to be beached to prove damages, I guess.
Time for an old fashioned beach-off
Just gotta get someone to hack their system. Then it’ll be easy to prove damages
Setting aside questions of legality, it seems kind of like it wouldn’t encourage someone to purchase their cars.
Yeah but the vast majority of car buyers won’t know about this or care. We’re all privacy advocates here but everyone and their mother is on Facebook or Instagram and is happily giving away all their information already anyway.
We’re all up in arms about this here in this thread, located in a self-selecting micro-community of people centered around a shared interest in the control of our data. If you called your mother and told her about this would it stop her from buying a new car in the future?
Correct, the vast majority of people don’t care.
That only helps when there’s viable alternatives. Since pretty much all auto manufacturers do something like this it’s not really a distinguishing feature.
And even if it was: how much worse/more expensive would a car need to be for you to not pick it over one that reads your text messages. And then ask the same question not for “you”, but for the average consumer. Then be sad …
Yet another item on my list of why I’ll never buy a modern car.
Thank goodness for Signal
If you connect your phone to the car, can it spy on your Signal messages? I mean, they have to decrypt on your end for you to see them, right? Or has Signal taken specific steps to stop this?
At least with my headunit (2015 Toyota). It cannot read the signal messages. Additionally, I remove contact and text permission from Bluetooth to be especially sure.
This is the real answer to everyone. Limit access to the Bluetooth connection or don’t use the headunit.
Thanks for the info!
I recently found a video talkkng about privacy. One of the topic was that privacy does not ring any bell in people’s mind. Contrary to intimacy. Maybe we should all replace privacy by intimacy so we can tell what is really implied to non software people
Good point. Messages sent, images taken, and ‘things happen’ in cars.
Wait, how are CARS intercepting mobile activities?
When you connect to Bluetooth, it asks your phone to share call, contact and SMS information.
Think like the old horrible headunit text implementation, the ability to scan your contact list from the car, and see your recent calls.
Mozilla tested a bunch. Try a search on the platform and see.
It can’t be illegal because you agree to allow them when you purchase the new vehicle. It’s all there in the T&C and PP, which no one ever reads. Don’t like it? Don’t buy new cars. I won’t.
So if I buy a used car they can’t do all that right?
Right?
Same privacy policy authorizing them to harvest your data, but older cars have a more limited capability to collect data compared to newer cars filled with sensors, cameras, and phone integrations. Plus older cellular networks are defunct for older vehicles so they can’t just exfil it without you helping or bringing it in to physically access it.
The issue is that this 20 year old car is not going to last forever or have replacement parts available forever. We need better privacy laws, because time and entropy will eventually force us all into this evil mess.
Agreed! What would be amazing though, is a manufacturer who could make a modern safe bare-bones vehicle that didn’t have the tech installed at all. If you want tech you could BYO.
Yes, I drive so rarely I would honestly be happy with any crappy old stereo to save a few thousand bucks. I’m lucky my ~2015 car still has completely separate radio and functions (climate, errors, etc.)
I would want to put in a good dashcam system though. Give me the bones; then let me DIY
Illegal terms in T&C are still illegal regardless of whether you agreed to them or not in the US.
You can get a car, just don’t connect your phone to it.
