Responding here since I didn’t know how to ping you in the other comment, in a sort of blunt way, you’re correct. Everyone would simply just be, not categorized into gender and the associated social expectations that come with it
In an extremely blunt way, it’s correct. It obviously extends beyond grammar, and I have an entirely different stance on how 3rd person pronouns should be handled in English that described, but the premise is solid. Take where you would typically use gender, and, like, don’t. Obviously you would still have biological sex for things like medical records, but it wouldn’t be tied to who you are as a person, it would just be a letter on a paper somewhere.
Can you be more verbose? I’m still really confused what you are trying to say and why it makes both sides mad? Could you throw in some examples of dialogue?
Sure. I’ll give it a shot. Sorry in advance if this just ends up being word salad. This isn’t my strong suit.
To start out with the base that nearly everyone agrees on: “gender”, as defined by something (there’s disagreement on that part) exists in society.
The traditionalist perspective is (from a typical western perspective, at least) that gender and all the social expectations and baggage that come along with it are simply the natural order. This perspective uses biological sex as the defining trait of gender. I presume everyone here passed 6th grade biology to figure out how that works.
There’s also a sizable group of people who disagree with that definition of gender, and consider it separate to biological sex. This, broadly speaking, constitutes the transgender movement. Now there’s a lot of different perspectives on how gender should be defined among this group, especially so if you branch out beyond the typical western perspective, and i don’t care to go into every different perspective in detail, I’m sure you have an opinion on this topic as well.
But to sort of loop back to where I started, both groups tend to believe that gender is an important part of people identity-wise, and should, in whatever form they support, be upheld, maintained, and respected.
That right there is the point where I break from the mainstream views. While it’s indisputable that society currently places heavy emphasis on gender, I believe it to be neither essential nor beneficial to society at large, and we should work to remove it from society.
Yeah thanks for trying I’m still confused but I think I kind of understand. Out of curiosity about how old are you? Most younger millennials and gen y that I interact with seem to not really care about gender and what you are saying seems like pretty common sentiment I’m those age groups. I think the part I’m confused about is like why this is controversial? I’ve miss gendered people several times and no one’s gotten ever mad or really cared since it’s not being done I’m mean or cruel way.
I’m a white cis male so I’m so confused about what the deal with caring so much about it is among some loud conservatives? Like the only people I see or hear about making it a problem are people being jerks in a professional environment and making it a big deal when literally no one cares if you are being nice and treating people like humans.
Not to change the subject since I’m still really confused but this is on the front page when I sort by hot. What I think you are saying seems like common sentiment in the LGBTQ community?
If I understand correctly, you’re saying that a person’s sex should only be referenced when it is relevant, which is only in a narrow set of situations. Any reference in speech to a person should not invoke his sex.
Sure. Though I’m genuinely curious where you’re located that the start and end of gender is planted firmly in linguistics. Because in my experience, there’s a whole lot more stuff in society that’s intertwined with gender.
What is gender abolition, the abolition of any distinctions between male and female?
No, that would be quack genetic modification. Not my area of expertise. Eliminating the social categorization of gender as a whole.
No need to call anybody a quack. I’m just trying to understand your controversial opinion.
Social categorization is incredibly vague, so it’s still not clear to me what you feel should be abolished.
I think he is trying to say everyone should become a they/them and he wants to abolish he/she genders?
Responding here since I didn’t know how to ping you in the other comment, in a sort of blunt way, you’re correct. Everyone would simply just be, not categorized into gender and the associated social expectations that come with it
I’d be surprised if his most controversial opinion is related to grammar.
In an extremely blunt way, it’s correct. It obviously extends beyond grammar, and I have an entirely different stance on how 3rd person pronouns should be handled in English that described, but the premise is solid. Take where you would typically use gender, and, like, don’t. Obviously you would still have biological sex for things like medical records, but it wouldn’t be tied to who you are as a person, it would just be a letter on a paper somewhere.
Can you be more verbose? I’m still really confused what you are trying to say and why it makes both sides mad? Could you throw in some examples of dialogue?
Sure. I’ll give it a shot. Sorry in advance if this just ends up being word salad. This isn’t my strong suit.
To start out with the base that nearly everyone agrees on: “gender”, as defined by something (there’s disagreement on that part) exists in society.
The traditionalist perspective is (from a typical western perspective, at least) that gender and all the social expectations and baggage that come along with it are simply the natural order. This perspective uses biological sex as the defining trait of gender. I presume everyone here passed 6th grade biology to figure out how that works.
There’s also a sizable group of people who disagree with that definition of gender, and consider it separate to biological sex. This, broadly speaking, constitutes the transgender movement. Now there’s a lot of different perspectives on how gender should be defined among this group, especially so if you branch out beyond the typical western perspective, and i don’t care to go into every different perspective in detail, I’m sure you have an opinion on this topic as well.
But to sort of loop back to where I started, both groups tend to believe that gender is an important part of people identity-wise, and should, in whatever form they support, be upheld, maintained, and respected.
That right there is the point where I break from the mainstream views. While it’s indisputable that society currently places heavy emphasis on gender, I believe it to be neither essential nor beneficial to society at large, and we should work to remove it from society.
Yeah thanks for trying I’m still confused but I think I kind of understand. Out of curiosity about how old are you? Most younger millennials and gen y that I interact with seem to not really care about gender and what you are saying seems like pretty common sentiment I’m those age groups. I think the part I’m confused about is like why this is controversial? I’ve miss gendered people several times and no one’s gotten ever mad or really cared since it’s not being done I’m mean or cruel way.
I’m a white cis male so I’m so confused about what the deal with caring so much about it is among some loud conservatives? Like the only people I see or hear about making it a problem are people being jerks in a professional environment and making it a big deal when literally no one cares if you are being nice and treating people like humans.
Not to change the subject since I’m still really confused but this is on the front page when I sort by hot. What I think you are saying seems like common sentiment in the LGBTQ community?
https://sh.itjust.works/post/1296958
Okay, thanks for explaining.
If I understand correctly, you’re saying that a person’s sex should only be referenced when it is relevant, which is only in a narrow set of situations. Any reference in speech to a person should not invoke his sex.
Sure. Though I’m genuinely curious where you’re located that the start and end of gender is planted firmly in linguistics. Because in my experience, there’s a whole lot more stuff in society that’s intertwined with gender.
Reality.