The “deal” requires Ukraine to cede a colossal amount of territory before negotiations even begin. Even if the Ukrainian leadership was willing to give up all of that for peace, doing so here would not actually even buy them peace, only a start to negotiations that could collapse at any time. That’s about as diplomatic an offer as Ukraine saying “pre-2014 borders and then we can talk.”
Ukraine will lose more territory going forward, that’s the fact of the situation. Russia is winning the war, and it’s pretty clear that the west is not able to do anything about it.
Russia is being diplomatic, but if nobody wants to do diplomacy on the other end then they’re obviously going to take what they want by force at that point. Not sure what’s so hard to understand here.
Yeah it is when you are in a position of power. This is precisely how NATO has been conducting diplomacy with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
I’m just explaining to you how the real world works here. That said, Russia gave Ukraine way more chances than US gave any of the countries it invaded.
It’s pretty clear that everyone does not want the war to stop given that the west has rejected multiple offers to stop the war. You’re right that the war can only stop if the west stops blocking the peace process.
Well, Russia has also rejected nany proposals, so that seems rather even.
I was not aware that Ukraine us preventing Russia from retreating out of Ukraine. Do you have a source for that? My understanding was hat Putin was allowed to pull back his troops, ending the war, without asking for permission from Ukraine? Or is it China he needs permission from? I’m confused. Who exactly is bossing Putin around saying he can’t withdraw?
It only seems even when you ignore the fact that Russia is winning the war.
Do you have a source for that? My understanding was hat Putin was allowed to pull back his troops, ending the war, without asking for permission from Ukraine? Or is it China he needs permission from? I’m confused. Who exactly is bossing Putin around saying he can’t withdraw?
That’s not what happened. Russia pulled back troops as part of Istanbul negotiations as a show of good faith. You do sound very confused indeed, which is likely why you keep making incoherent statements here. Perhaps spend a bit of time learning about the subject first?
You have the mindset that will be the reason for the end of the world. You literally say “the strong can do whatever the fuck they want”, how is that not warmongering?
You literally say “the strong can do whatever the fuck they want”, how is that not warmongering?
It’s absolutely hilarious that you’re claiming that this hasn’t been the norm already. The west has invaded Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan just to name a few countries in recent years. The only reason you’re upset now is that it’s not your side that’s doing it.
The people who are going to be the reason for the world to end are always the ones who want the wars to keep going. Especially wars where the outcome is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.
So anyone who oppose you is a capitalist western dog is it?
It’s equally wrong to be sided with the West who invade countries just like to be sided with Russia or China who invades countries or persecute minorities. But since I don’t like tyrants, I must be Western.
The norm: “Let’s kill each other”. Yeah, that looks like something normal. Totally.
I just hope you live long enough to see the second Soviet dissolution. Maybe that day you’ll understand how bad warmongering is.
So anyone who oppose you is a capitalist western dog is it?
I’m just pointing out the sheer bullshit your argument is premised on. The west has been going on a rampage across the globe since USSR fell, and now here you are doing hand wringing about might makes right when a non western country does what’s already been normalized claiming it would be the end of the world.
The norm: “Let’s kill each other”. Yeah, that looks like something normal. Totally.
That’s the world US created under its hegemony since USSR dissolved.
I just hope you live long enough to see the second Soviet dissolution. Maybe that day you’ll understand how bad warmongering is.
The only one doing warmongering here is you. I want the war to end. I love how you aren’t even trying to be coherent here.
Many Ukrainians may be open to negotiations in theory, but they overwhelmingly did not trust Russia to negotiate in good faith. Most Ukrainians (86 percent) believed that there is a medium or high risk that Russia will attack again even if there is a signed peace treaty, and even more (91 percent) believed that Russia’s motive to enter negotiations is to take time to prepare for a new attack. Even among those who supported negotiations with Russia, only 21 percent believed that signing a peace treaty would help Ukraine deter future Russian aggression.
Putin’s problem is he burned all the trust the world had in him when he attacked Ukraine after saying he would not. If he is truly serious about peace, he first needs to rebuild that trust.
The reality is that Russia is winning the war, and every day that goes by puts Ukraine and its western sponsors in a worse position. The terms will only get worse from here on out.
Even if it were true, it has nothing to do with the fact that Putin has said he is open for negotiations, while doing absolutely nothing to actually get people to negotiate with him.
If he wants to negotiate, he needs to work on building trust, so he has someone to negotiate with. If he does not want to negotiate, then he should just say so. What Putin does now just makes people not take him seriously. You could practically hear the global eye-rolling when he made his latest proposal.
I don’t think you understand what’s happening here. Either the west decides to start negotiating or there won’t be an Ukraine left. Those are the options on the table.
Right, and Putin knows that the west and Ukraine will not negotiate since they don’t trust him. So what is the point of making an offer you don’t expect to be accepted? If you don’t expect to negotiate, you are not being serious about it.
You can not claim to be for a diplomstic solution and at the same time do nothing to actually reach it.
Putin would rather kill millions of Ukrainians and Russians than make himself trustworthy (which could actually lead to a diplomatic solution)? What kind of person does that?
The west of Ukraine has a choice to work with Russia to resolve this or to wait for Russia to win militarily and dictate terms. I’m still not sure what part of this you’re struggling with.
Now, Russia has put out another peace deal based on the realities on the ground today. The west immediately rejected it again. Yet, it turns out that it’s Putin who is willing to kill millions instead of using basic diplomacy. Interesting logic you’ve got going there.
I guess engaging with reality is difficult for people who’ve been huffing propaganda for the past two years. If you think Ukraine will get better terms going forward then you’re utterly delusional.
Says the snowflake who can’t handle someone being a little mean to them on the internet and has to cry to the mods. Who’s the child here? We could ask all those dead russians that putin sent.
He literally put out a peace deal days ago that the west rejected.
The “deal” requires Ukraine to cede a colossal amount of territory before negotiations even begin. Even if the Ukrainian leadership was willing to give up all of that for peace, doing so here would not actually even buy them peace, only a start to negotiations that could collapse at any time. That’s about as diplomatic an offer as Ukraine saying “pre-2014 borders and then we can talk.”
Ukraine will lose more territory going forward, that’s the fact of the situation. Russia is winning the war, and it’s pretty clear that the west is not able to do anything about it.
That’s a hard shift from “Russia is being diplomatic” to “Russia can just take what it wants”
Russia is being diplomatic, but if nobody wants to do diplomacy on the other end then they’re obviously going to take what they want by force at that point. Not sure what’s so hard to understand here.
It’s not meaningful diplomacy to say “give us everything we want or we will take everything we want”
Yeah it is when you are in a position of power. This is precisely how NATO has been conducting diplomacy with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Oh right, so do you consider America’s behaviour towards Afghanistan diplomatic then?
I’m just explaining to you how the real world works here. That said, Russia gave Ukraine way more chances than US gave any of the countries it invaded.
lol the “peace deal” was just russia getting what it wants. Putin can end the war at any moment by withdrawing his troops back to russia.
Can you explain to us why he would do that given that Russia is winning decisively?
What kind of logic is that? He is the one who started the war, as well as he can end it any time.
And that time will be when Russia wins the war decisively.
You can support Putin blindly all you want but you don’t have to be warmongering. It isn’t good for any of us.
It’s interesting how people who want the war to keep going are calling people who want the war to stop war mongers.
I think everyone wants the war to stop, but only one side can actually do that.
It’s pretty clear that everyone does not want the war to stop given that the west has rejected multiple offers to stop the war. You’re right that the war can only stop if the west stops blocking the peace process.
Well, Russia has also rejected nany proposals, so that seems rather even.
I was not aware that Ukraine us preventing Russia from retreating out of Ukraine. Do you have a source for that? My understanding was hat Putin was allowed to pull back his troops, ending the war, without asking for permission from Ukraine? Or is it China he needs permission from? I’m confused. Who exactly is bossing Putin around saying he can’t withdraw?
It only seems even when you ignore the fact that Russia is winning the war.
That’s not what happened. Russia pulled back troops as part of Istanbul negotiations as a show of good faith. You do sound very confused indeed, which is likely why you keep making incoherent statements here. Perhaps spend a bit of time learning about the subject first?
You have the mindset that will be the reason for the end of the world. You literally say “the strong can do whatever the fuck they want”, how is that not warmongering?
It’s absolutely hilarious that you’re claiming that this hasn’t been the norm already. The west has invaded Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan just to name a few countries in recent years. The only reason you’re upset now is that it’s not your side that’s doing it.
The people who are going to be the reason for the world to end are always the ones who want the wars to keep going. Especially wars where the outcome is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.
So anyone who oppose you is a capitalist western dog is it?
It’s equally wrong to be sided with the West who invade countries just like to be sided with Russia or China who invades countries or persecute minorities. But since I don’t like tyrants, I must be Western.
The norm: “Let’s kill each other”. Yeah, that looks like something normal. Totally.
I just hope you live long enough to see the second Soviet dissolution. Maybe that day you’ll understand how bad warmongering is.
I’m just pointing out the sheer bullshit your argument is premised on. The west has been going on a rampage across the globe since USSR fell, and now here you are doing hand wringing about might makes right when a non western country does what’s already been normalized claiming it would be the end of the world.
That’s the world US created under its hegemony since USSR dissolved.
The only one doing warmongering here is you. I want the war to end. I love how you aren’t even trying to be coherent here.
From one of the sources cited in the article: https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/06/ukraine-public-opinion-russia-war?lang=en
Putin’s problem is he burned all the trust the world had in him when he attacked Ukraine after saying he would not. If he is truly serious about peace, he first needs to rebuild that trust.
The reality is that Russia is winning the war, and every day that goes by puts Ukraine and its western sponsors in a worse position. The terms will only get worse from here on out.
Even if it were true, it has nothing to do with the fact that Putin has said he is open for negotiations, while doing absolutely nothing to actually get people to negotiate with him.
If he wants to negotiate, he needs to work on building trust, so he has someone to negotiate with. If he does not want to negotiate, then he should just say so. What Putin does now just makes people not take him seriously. You could practically hear the global eye-rolling when he made his latest proposal.
I don’t think you understand what’s happening here. Either the west decides to start negotiating or there won’t be an Ukraine left. Those are the options on the table.
Right, and Putin knows that the west and Ukraine will not negotiate since they don’t trust him. So what is the point of making an offer you don’t expect to be accepted? If you don’t expect to negotiate, you are not being serious about it.
You can not claim to be for a diplomstic solution and at the same time do nothing to actually reach it.
Putin would rather kill millions of Ukrainians and Russians than make himself trustworthy (which could actually lead to a diplomatic solution)? What kind of person does that?
The west of Ukraine has a choice to work with Russia to resolve this or to wait for Russia to win militarily and dictate terms. I’m still not sure what part of this you’re struggling with.
I’m struggling with Putin willing to kill millions instead of using basic diplomacy.
Putin is using basic diplomacy, and has been trying to do that for 8 whole years before the war started. That’s what Minsk agreements were about. Then two months into the war Russia almost had a deal with Ukraine that the west tanked. Even NYT has publicly admitted to this https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/15/world/europe/ukraine-russia-ceasefire-deal.html
Now, Russia has put out another peace deal based on the realities on the ground today. The west immediately rejected it again. Yet, it turns out that it’s Putin who is willing to kill millions instead of using basic diplomacy. Interesting logic you’ve got going there.
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I guess engaging with reality is difficult for people who’ve been huffing propaganda for the past two years. If you think Ukraine will get better terms going forward then you’re utterly delusional.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxee131gejpo
Removed by mod
Says the snowflake who can’t handle someone being a little mean to them on the internet and has to cry to the mods. Who’s the child here? We could ask all those dead russians that putin sent.
I reported you to the mods because I don’t want to see content from insane people on here. Go back to the cesspool that’s reddit where you belong.