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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
The Wisconsin English teacher, Jordan Cernek, argues in the suit that the district violated his freedom of religion and free speech in mandating the use of the students’ preferred names and pronouns.
A high school English teacher is suing a Wisconsin school district, alleging it did not renew his contract last year because he refused to use the preferred names of two transgender students.
Jordan Cernek’s federal lawsuit alleges the Argyle School District violated his constitutional and civil rights to be free of religious discrimination and to be able to express himself according to his religious beliefs when it did not renew his contract because he refused to abide by a requirement that teachers use the names or pronouns requested by students.
If you’re the teacher of a classroom and it’s not part of your contract to call Timmy as Tim, then little Timmy can go legally change his name to Tim.
Do you realize how disconnected from reality you sound? Kids’ legal names aren’t as important as you think they are. Honestly, neither are adults’ legal names.
If someone comes up to you (outside of a school) and says their name is Will, do you say you’re only going to call them William? If yes, wow, you are so weird. If not, why does it matter inside of a school and not outside?
Your teachers seem to have failed you as your reading comprehension is lacking.
In school, a teacher is an employee. It’s their job. Outside of working hours, they’re not an employee. It’s their personal time. Job, personal time, very different things. If you expect them not to be this way, you’re kinda being an asshole towards them as a person.
To take the IT guy as an example. Do you expect to call them outside of their working hours to come fix your internet and call you pet names in the process? If so, wow do I have news for you!
Edit: Talk about disconnected…
A reading comprehension insult from someone who didn’t even answer my actual question?
Thank Christ you’re just working at a school and not an actual teacher.
I did answer it, you simply failed to recognize it as such.
A school is an organization with a specific purpose. A teacher is an employee of that organization working there under a contract within a set of rules. The students are the beneficiaries of the services that organization offers. The teachers obligation is to provide those services as specified in their contract. Beyond that and other than the laws of the city and country they reside in, they are not obligated to provide any other service that is requested of them.
Demanding something that is beyond their obligations and expecting them to accomplish it unconditionally is an assholeish thing to do.
Ps: You presume too much. Just stuck to the written words and refrain the imagination that flows far beyond them. It will serve you better in the long run.
My guy, your writing and communication skills clearly just suck if you need to keep clarifying with pretentious drivel. “It will serve you better in the long run,” as if you know how anything in the real world works.
Teachers who don’t respect their students’ human dignity shouldn’t get their contracts renewed. They’re not obligated to be a swollen dickhole since that service was not requested of them. You’ve simply failed to recognize that as such, I suppose.
Uh huh. So calling students by their actual name is not respecting their human dignity now.
You seem lovely as well, so I’ll explain it more clearly, because you seem to have fallen into a hole. This little thing you seem so fond of is a fun thing called entitlement. And it’s fun because it need no explanation, it’s all there in the word itself. En-title-ment. Or in other words, pretentious drivel.
You have a name and it is being used in its exact form. That is in fact respecting your dignity as a human being. Anything beyond that is s privilege, not an obligation. And anyone can choose not to provide that privilege as that is their right just as it is yours in return.
You’re not wrong though. You don’t have to like it or the person who does that and the teacher’s contract doesn’t have to be renewed if they don’t fit in. But any expectations that aren’t included in the contract can and should be challenged.
You seem to place parental choices and legal contracts over personal preference. Maybe you don’t care so much about human dignity in terms of being able to express one’s own identity, at least when it comes to children.
Did you not have an identity as a child, other than the one your parents picked out for you, as defined in a legal contract that your school recorded?
The human being didn’t choose their name at the time of birth. They were not able to produce language, and are not legally awarded have the capacity to express a choice (babies cannot sign contracts).
The human being is now older, and can now choose. That has precedence over a choice made for them.
Yes. Outside of school. Outside of the classroom. Outside of where I was graded. Outside of the exams.
And they should do so, officially. It is an option and they should take advantage of it.
Are you LARPing being autistic? Because, as an autistic teacher of autistic students, I find your ignorant appeals to neutral logic pretty galling.
Good for you for being an autistic teacher for autistic children. I presume you were hired specifically for that purpose with the required resources given in mind.
Nope. I didn’t know I was autistic when I got this job. The class is not a special needs class. Children might be found to be autistic while in the class. Children might be judged by me and by trained support staff to have a high likelihood of being autistic without an official diagnosis, because CAMHS is a very overburdened system.
Another wrong assumption that you have made.
I presumed incorrectly then. Thank you for clarifying.
The obligations of a teacher aren’t just word of mouth or unspoken rules. Going beyond the obligations required by your institution makes you, it or both liable for blame when something goes wrong.
Not everyone wants to shoulder that blame, not everyone should be forced to shoulder that blame if they didn’t sign up for it.
Your institution has policy, trained staff and wiling teachers, all explained beforehand. But that’s just your case. You can’t expect everyone to conform the same way when each of their circumstances may be different.
The fact that you think a pet name and a preferred name are the same thing shows how much you understand what you’re talking about.
For both the beauty of understanding and its ugliness is that the more you think you understand something, the less you understand it.
The metaphor was bad, just take the L.
I see. You understand it perfectly then.
Yes. Phone autocorrect. Thank you.
It’s my job, as a teacher, to support my students. I do this by calling them by their preferred name if they ask.
Feel free to complain about that.
Your job as a teacher is whatever the contract asks of you. Anything you do beyond that is a choice that might not be supported by the administration of the school that employs you.
I mean, good for you for being supportive of your students. But if your school decides you shouldn’t do that and you refuse, well bye.
Well, the administration of the school in op clearly felt that the teachers religiously motivated insistence on being a dick violated their contract; so where’s that leave you lol
It leaves me at my original post. This particular teacher’s dumb reasons doesn’t change the idea in itself.
Sure the teacher was dumb, sure the institution didn’t agree. But it’s just the circumstances of this case. Can’t say things will be the same every time, when the circumstances will be different.
Sure, but the problem is that leaves states and districts open to enforce a form of bigotry
They are always open to enforce a form of bigotry. So your focus should be instead on that and prevent reaching this situation. Or what? You expect to stop a series of arsons with one bucket of water?
How I ‘legally changed’ my name:
I told everyone that knew me by my old name what my new name was.
This involved sending letters to places of business I had an account with, e.g. bank and utilities.
Do you have to do that for a nickname?
So, if Timmy says “I prefer Tim”, is that going against a ‘contract’? Doesn’t seem so.
Just because Timmy prefers Tim doesn’t mean everyone has to call him Tim. Maybe the other person prefers to call him by the given name.
It’s not up to someone else what they call me. It’s up to me.
Nah, I’m pretty sure anyone can call you whatever they like.
So the name on your birth certificate is “lath”?
On Lemmy, I have registered with that nickname and as such I expect it to be used.
Is that so hard to comprehend?
In school, the child asked to be referred to by a name, and as such they expect it to be used.
Is that so hard to comprehend?
Not if it isn’t the one they registered with.
You have a creepily excessive regard for rules. Humans are more important than rules - that’s human decency.
Yes they are. We just disagree on proportion.
Im so glad you have insight on this. You see, I get a lot of international students in my class and I’ve had to deal with this type of thing a lot. Maybe you can help me out.
Let’s say I have a polish student whose name is “Żółć”, which is somewhat difficult to pronounce in English. After a few failed attempts, he just tells me he prefers “George” because it sounds close enough, he likes that it sounds like English, and is easier for everyone to pronounce. His English-speaking friends call him George as well.
Do I…
I could really use some help with this since it happens all the time. Please let me know what you think.
Learn to pronounce their name. Duh.
OR, just bear with me…
Call them the name they’d prefer to be called because it’s easier than making a scene and nobody actually gaf.
Never give up, never surrender!
You could use more time outside, and less watching movies
They aint surrendering bro, just on the other side lmfaooo
That counts as one.
It really doesnt. People dont necessarily default to your side
So they have to default on yours instead?
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I’d give you a picture of a mirror, but you’ll probably think it really is one.
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