With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900. That’s fucking absurd. All across the US kids would be waiting for the school bus in the dark, walking to those bus stops in the dark. My personal beef with it is that I, and many of the people that make the world go 'round, start at 0600. We need to see ASAP for safety, if nothing else.
Fuck DST. If people really want it to stay light until 2100 in the summer then so be it but don’t make a lot of the working class labor half their day in the dark in the depths of winter.
Kids all across the US are waiting at the bus in the dark anyway.
Not everyone gets to get on a bus after sunrise.
The better answer is to just quit switching altogether, and socially adjust everything to x hours pre mid-day sun.
With everything being connected these days it’s trivial (hell, industrial clocks have been tied to electrical frequency since 1900, so it’s always been trivial to compensate them).
If “6am” slowly moved every day due to when mid-day sun/sunrise occurs, no one would even notice.
Maybe instead of focusing on 6 am we just accept that noon makes sense as when the sun is highest in the sky (or close as we can get with timezones) and that the time the sun comes up will change throughout the year.
I say keep the time at either at ST or DST and let the different institutions/businesses decide their hours of operation. I’ll bet you after a year or two, 99% will settle on something and keep it throughout the year.
My personal complaint is that I would have an extra hour of work in the dark, and DST does that to me anyway. My schedule is earlier than office workers and I like it.
Even my days off are early and it’s great. I know the country is going to go permanent DST eventually and I’ll adapt, but it’s still stupid IMO.
With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900.
The entire nation doesn’t need to be following year round the schedule that Detroit school kids need from November to January.
The better solution for this little problem is to go ahead and shift the entire country to permanent DST, and move Detroit from the Eastern time zone to the Central time zone. Latest sunrise in Detroit is now 8AM. Your complaint is resolved, without either of us being forced to switch our clocks twice a year.
No. Fuck them. If I’m get a Spring Forward I’m owed a goddamned Fall Back. I spend half a year with an hour’s deficit so people going home to watch Netflix after work can pretend they give a damn about an extra hour of sunlight.
Give me Standard Time or pay to move my ass to the West a couple hundred miles to fix it.
Holding that opinion, I am reasonably sure you do not live on the eastern edge of your time zone. Being that militant about it, I reasonably believe you live all the way on the western edge.
That being the case, there’s an easier solution. Just redraw the timezone boundaries so your state is just west of the boundary instead of just east, which leaves you on “standard time” in your current timezone, which is “daylight time” to your west.
If Detroit kept DST permanent, the sun would basically set after 6pm every day.
However. Like you said, no one wants to wait until the 9am for the sun to rise.
Abolishing DST could be beneficial for Detroit. Not as many days where the sun sets after 6. But more days where it rises before 7.
The current system is bad for Detroit. It should either abolish it or keep it permanent.
Detroit night owls would want to keep it, early birds would want to abolish it.
Detroit is like El Paso TX. Where the current system is clearly bad.
Maine is the opposite. The current system is “best” and the birds and owls fight.
I live in Charlotte NC. I’ve always been for DST. Permanent DST means basically 365 days where the sun sets after 6pm. While getting basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7am. I’m not an early riser, so as long as it’s up by 8/9am most of the time it’s fine with me.
Arizona has it right. What I want in Charlotte shouldn’t matter to what you want in Detroit.
You hate DST, I like it. You should be able to get rid of it, I should be able to keep it.
Different places are affected by it much more or less. People are owls or birds. You can’t make everybody happy with one option.
Maine is so far away from everything else it could be in it’s own time zone. That’s why it is a strange case.
Never really thought about Detroit being almost directly north of Charlotte.
Red lines are current time zones. Red circle is El Paso. Blue lines are if you equally cut US into 4 time zones.
Detroit is to the right of the red line. It has 3 boxes to reach the beginning of the time zone which is just to the right of Maine. (Sorry didn’t draw it)
El Paso being in the circle makes it 3 boxes to reach the beginning of time zone just like Detroit and why it is in the similar situation with DST.
The right two time zones are large time zones. The left two are only 2 boxes wide.
Maine should be in a separate time zone than Detroit
Detroit should probably move to CST. Then, argue about daylight savings time in the summer to be EST (Not EDT)
It’s clearly a complex issue. I didn’t realize that Eastern and Central were so much bigger than Mountain and Pacific, honestly. Central is crazy across the southern US.
Normally I don’t mind the change so much but it’s kicking my ass this fall for some reason. I don’t actually live in Detroit, I just know it’s one of the more extreme examples like El Paso (but they just want to stick with the rest of TX anyway). I live in CO and wake up early; Looking at Fig1 it’s obvious that I would like it abolished but most here would like it permanent. lol, poor Utah.
I dunno, the majority of people seem to want permanent, I know CO has a law saying as soon as Congress allows it we’re going to stay on DST. So it’s coming, but I don’t have to like it.
I just realized that El Paso is actually in MST. They must have hated it so bad not to stick with the rest of Texas. But whoever lives in the farthest point west but still in CST is being screwed. Same with EST.
Funny the section of Texas that is in MST is three tiny blocks, basically the same width as all of Michigan. Texas is big lol.
Michigan should probably move to CST
When I think of Colorado I think of it being way north. You could live in Colorado and be as north as someone living in Raleigh NC almost. That’s wild.
Yeah Colorado seems to appear to be all up to preference on the choices. It’s at the start of a time zone. People on the east lean towards permanent MDT, People on the west lean towards permanent MST.
Im guessing that you live towards the west side. Yet if most people around you seem to want it, then maybe you live on east side lol
I say this every year: FUUUUUUUUCK THAT.
With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900. That’s fucking absurd. All across the US kids would be waiting for the school bus in the dark, walking to those bus stops in the dark. My personal beef with it is that I, and many of the people that make the world go 'round, start at 0600. We need to see ASAP for safety, if nothing else.
The US tried it in the early '70s, didn’t even finish the two year trial period:
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1087280464/the-u-s-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-1970s-then-quickly-rejected-
Fuck DST. If people really want it to stay light until 2100 in the summer then so be it but don’t make a lot of the working class labor half their day in the dark in the depths of winter.
Kids all across the US are waiting at the bus in the dark anyway.
Not everyone gets to get on a bus after sunrise.
The better answer is to just quit switching altogether, and socially adjust everything to x hours pre mid-day sun.
With everything being connected these days it’s trivial (hell, industrial clocks have been tied to electrical frequency since 1900, so it’s always been trivial to compensate them).
If “6am” slowly moved every day due to when mid-day sun/sunrise occurs, no one would even notice.
Maybe instead of focusing on 6 am we just accept that noon makes sense as when the sun is highest in the sky (or close as we can get with timezones) and that the time the sun comes up will change throughout the year.
I say keep the time at either at ST or DST and let the different institutions/businesses decide their hours of operation. I’ll bet you after a year or two, 99% will settle on something and keep it throughout the year.
Found the ancient Mesopotamian…
In the north? Here in the middle of the country it’s reasonable.
There’s a lot of commerce that would actually be disrupted by doing that. Software developers would certainly riot.
My personal complaint is that I would have an extra hour of work in the dark, and DST does that to me anyway. My schedule is earlier than office workers and I like it.
Even my days off are early and it’s great. I know the country is going to go permanent DST eventually and I’ll adapt, but it’s still stupid IMO.
The entire nation doesn’t need to be following year round the schedule that Detroit school kids need from November to January.
The better solution for this little problem is to go ahead and shift the entire country to permanent DST, and move Detroit from the Eastern time zone to the Central time zone. Latest sunrise in Detroit is now 8AM. Your complaint is resolved, without either of us being forced to switch our clocks twice a year.
You can’t make the days longer and I still think the sun in the afternoon/evening is more useful.
It’s true moving the clocks around doesn’t do anything. But I know my kids wanted more hours of daylight after school not before school.
Though I also think school ought to start closer to 9:00.
Do you like the time change, or do you want to stick to standard time?
My preference is to stick to standard. If people insist on DST I acquiesce.
I know I could just go live in Arizona, but then I’d have to live in Arizona.
Flagstaff is nice. Williams and Winslow are nice if you’re fully remote. Anything South of Camp Verde or Prescott is just ridiculous though.
No. Fuck them. If I’m get a Spring Forward I’m owed a goddamned Fall Back. I spend half a year with an hour’s deficit so people going home to watch Netflix after work can pretend they give a damn about an extra hour of sunlight.
Give me Standard Time or pay to move my ass to the West a couple hundred miles to fix it.
Holding that opinion, I am reasonably sure you do not live on the eastern edge of your time zone. Being that militant about it, I reasonably believe you live all the way on the western edge.
That being the case, there’s an easier solution. Just redraw the timezone boundaries so your state is just west of the boundary instead of just east, which leaves you on “standard time” in your current timezone, which is “daylight time” to your west.
Detroit is an interesting one.
If Detroit kept DST permanent, the sun would basically set after 6pm every day.
However. Like you said, no one wants to wait until the 9am for the sun to rise.
Abolishing DST could be beneficial for Detroit. Not as many days where the sun sets after 6. But more days where it rises before 7.
The current system is bad for Detroit. It should either abolish it or keep it permanent.
Detroit night owls would want to keep it, early birds would want to abolish it.
Detroit is like El Paso TX. Where the current system is clearly bad.
Maine is the opposite. The current system is “best” and the birds and owls fight.
I live in Charlotte NC. I’ve always been for DST. Permanent DST means basically 365 days where the sun sets after 6pm. While getting basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7am. I’m not an early riser, so as long as it’s up by 8/9am most of the time it’s fine with me.
Arizona has it right. What I want in Charlotte shouldn’t matter to what you want in Detroit.
You hate DST, I like it. You should be able to get rid of it, I should be able to keep it.
Different places are affected by it much more or less. People are owls or birds. You can’t make everybody happy with one option.
Maine is so far away from everything else it could be in it’s own time zone. That’s why it is a strange case.
Never really thought about Detroit being almost directly north of Charlotte.
Red lines are current time zones. Red circle is El Paso. Blue lines are if you equally cut US into 4 time zones.
Detroit is to the right of the red line. It has 3 boxes to reach the beginning of the time zone which is just to the right of Maine. (Sorry didn’t draw it)
El Paso being in the circle makes it 3 boxes to reach the beginning of time zone just like Detroit and why it is in the similar situation with DST.
The right two time zones are large time zones. The left two are only 2 boxes wide.
Maine should be in a separate time zone than Detroit
Detroit should probably move to CST. Then, argue about daylight savings time in the summer to be EST (Not EDT)
Sounds like something you’d like, maybe?
It’s clearly a complex issue. I didn’t realize that Eastern and Central were so much bigger than Mountain and Pacific, honestly. Central is crazy across the southern US.
Normally I don’t mind the change so much but it’s kicking my ass this fall for some reason. I don’t actually live in Detroit, I just know it’s one of the more extreme examples like El Paso (but they just want to stick with the rest of TX anyway). I live in CO and wake up early; Looking at Fig1 it’s obvious that I would like it abolished but most here would like it permanent. lol, poor Utah.
I dunno, the majority of people seem to want permanent, I know CO has a law saying as soon as Congress allows it we’re going to stay on DST. So it’s coming, but I don’t have to like it.
Fuck DST.
I just realized that El Paso is actually in MST. They must have hated it so bad not to stick with the rest of Texas. But whoever lives in the farthest point west but still in CST is being screwed. Same with EST.
Funny the section of Texas that is in MST is three tiny blocks, basically the same width as all of Michigan. Texas is big lol.
Michigan should probably move to CST
When I think of Colorado I think of it being way north. You could live in Colorado and be as north as someone living in Raleigh NC almost. That’s wild.
Yeah Colorado seems to appear to be all up to preference on the choices. It’s at the start of a time zone. People on the east lean towards permanent MDT, People on the west lean towards permanent MST.
Im guessing that you live towards the west side. Yet if most people around you seem to want it, then maybe you live on east side lol
So what you are saying is that kids can walk to school in the dark at 7am anyway?
Not in Colorado. Detroit has to deal with their own shit, I guess.