I “don’t get” the USA-bad generalization. There’s still good jobs with good benefits here. It may not be mandatory, but some employers actually treat their employees well.
I have worked my entire life and I have always given it my all. I have never got benefits close to most in modern Europe even though I work longer hours and I am more productive.
So sure, there are some good employers but we can’t all be making 400k a year working at Valve. For every good employer there are thousands of shitty ones.
Without the laws and protection from the government employers will always take advantage of their workers. The system is flawed because of the inherent power imbalance and everyone seems to see it but you. Once again. What don’t you “get”?
To rephrase, I “dislike” these kind of over-dramatic generalizations that are clearly written to entice an inflammatory response. And sure, 400k per year would definitely be nice.
Without the laws and protection from the government employers will always take advantage of their workers.
I appreciate you don’t like shitting on things pointlessly. I am not sure your unique personal experience (that every US employer you have had has given you six weeks paid) should discount the reality the majority of US workers face
Without laws to protect workers their rights will always be violated. What you are trying to get at is what if some benevolent entity chooses to actually care for their workers like Gabe does.
This does happen but it doesn’t stop the fact that another employer purposely underpays their employee by giving them a salary but expecting them to work additional overtime without compensation.
I bring up this example because recently the US made a rule that employers did have to pay overtime to a salaried employee which was then struck down by a judge.
Ultimately the struggle is real. US workers are some of the most productive in the world but we are not getting compensated fairly for it.
We cannot rely on goodwill at this point. Looking back on history we can see we have struggled to get the rights we already have. We must demand better to lift our fellow citizens up.
So while you don’t like shitting on things for no reason others see the reason. They aren’t getting 6 weeks and 400k. Hell they aren’t even getting 12 days and their pay makes them eligible for public assistance.
Meanwhile their company makes record profits and I pay for their food stamps through taxes. I am subsidizing employers who choose not to pay their workers what they are worth because they don’t have to.
I appreciate the civil discourse, but please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that every US employer I’ve ever had has given me six weeks paid leave. If I remember correctly, it took me eight years at this specific employer to max out vacation time within their company. I’ve been there 11 years now. The time-off increases are all laid out in the employee handbook and applicable to everyone, from office staff to machine operators. So clearly, everyone with this amount of time isn’t making $400k, or even six-figures. In reality, I acknowledge that I make less in raw salary than peers in comparable jobs at other employers, but the benefits and company culture are nice here. If I started job hopping, I could definitely find better pay, but I’d start over on benefit accumulation and probably won’t be as happy with the job/employer in general.
Yes, I definitely used your words against you unfairly to prove how silly your original premise is. You have struggled like anyone else to get where you are although, let’s be frank, you are clearly privileged.
I don’t mean that in a rude way either, just that you probably have marketable skills with a good job history and perhaps even an education to boot.
Think about it this way. If the government guaranteed us all a good amount of vacation time you would be free to seek other better compensating employers without fear of losing that benefit.
I know healthcare in the US is also a big factor. I personally know many people who chose not to leave their job for fear of losing their coverage. I know people who had cancer but would not stop working because they could not afford to lose their coverage.
There are problems and they are very bad. So I guess I agree with you now. We shouldn’t be shitting on things pointlessly. We should be having real conversations about the issues we face.
For sure, I recognize I have some privileges. This includes the paid-time-off allotted to me by my US employer. However, just like the majority of people, the level of privilege is a mixed bag. With heart complications this year, I managed to max out my health insurance deductible a few months before the end of the year. Unfortunately, instead of covering the full cost of the remaining procedures my doctor requested, the insurance provider decided to reject all of my claims after the deductible. Surely, this is not privilege.
As you said, we should have real conversations about the issues we face. My original comment was to reject the unfair premise of the OP, which purposely chose an above-average vacation paid for by a European company and compared it to a significantly below average US vacation, that coincidentally needed to be fully spent on medical recovery. By providing an opposite and personal US-based example, instead of a biased generalization, I hoped these flaws will be more evident.
Furthermore, I do appreciate your willingness to engage in honest conversation. Your responses did lead me to do some research on actual attempts to make progress with paid-time-off minimums. For the lurkers, the most recent attempt is The Protected Time Off Act, introduced to congress in March of 2024. This would provide a two-week minimum paid leave, accruing after 60 days of employment. Please write to your representatives if you want to see this become law.
Also, for those looking for a solid career without an overpriced college degree, look in into local manufacturing. Stuff is made everywhere, and smaller manufacturers are more likely to value internal experience and, in my opinion, treat their employees well. At my employer it’s not unusual for machine operators to get promotions into technician positions (because they know the machines and processes). For the same reason, it’s not unusual for technicians to enter engineering roles (we design most of our machines in-house).
The averages tell a more complete story than the few jobs with good benefits. More broadly, understanding statistics allows you view a larger picture than your own personal experiences.
Of course; however, the OP here had no interest in discussing averages. They chose an above average European vacation time and the interest in tanning on the beach and compared it to a way below average American vacation time, who coincidentally needed to spend all of it recovering from heart surgery. Surely, this was an accurate “complete story.”
I “don’t get” the USA-bad generalization. There’s still good jobs with good benefits here. It may not be mandatory, but some employers actually treat their employees well.
I have worked my entire life and I have always given it my all. I have never got benefits close to most in modern Europe even though I work longer hours and I am more productive.
So sure, there are some good employers but we can’t all be making 400k a year working at Valve. For every good employer there are thousands of shitty ones.
Without the laws and protection from the government employers will always take advantage of their workers. The system is flawed because of the inherent power imbalance and everyone seems to see it but you. Once again. What don’t you “get”?
To rephrase, I “dislike” these kind of over-dramatic generalizations that are clearly written to entice an inflammatory response. And sure, 400k per year would definitely be nice.
Always?
I appreciate you don’t like shitting on things pointlessly. I am not sure your unique personal experience (that every US employer you have had has given you six weeks paid) should discount the reality the majority of US workers face
Without laws to protect workers their rights will always be violated. What you are trying to get at is what if some benevolent entity chooses to actually care for their workers like Gabe does.
This does happen but it doesn’t stop the fact that another employer purposely underpays their employee by giving them a salary but expecting them to work additional overtime without compensation.
I bring up this example because recently the US made a rule that employers did have to pay overtime to a salaried employee which was then struck down by a judge.
Ultimately the struggle is real. US workers are some of the most productive in the world but we are not getting compensated fairly for it.
We cannot rely on goodwill at this point. Looking back on history we can see we have struggled to get the rights we already have. We must demand better to lift our fellow citizens up.
So while you don’t like shitting on things for no reason others see the reason. They aren’t getting 6 weeks and 400k. Hell they aren’t even getting 12 days and their pay makes them eligible for public assistance.
Meanwhile their company makes record profits and I pay for their food stamps through taxes. I am subsidizing employers who choose not to pay their workers what they are worth because they don’t have to.
I appreciate the civil discourse, but please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that every US employer I’ve ever had has given me six weeks paid leave. If I remember correctly, it took me eight years at this specific employer to max out vacation time within their company. I’ve been there 11 years now. The time-off increases are all laid out in the employee handbook and applicable to everyone, from office staff to machine operators. So clearly, everyone with this amount of time isn’t making $400k, or even six-figures. In reality, I acknowledge that I make less in raw salary than peers in comparable jobs at other employers, but the benefits and company culture are nice here. If I started job hopping, I could definitely find better pay, but I’d start over on benefit accumulation and probably won’t be as happy with the job/employer in general.
Yes, I definitely used your words against you unfairly to prove how silly your original premise is. You have struggled like anyone else to get where you are although, let’s be frank, you are clearly privileged.
I don’t mean that in a rude way either, just that you probably have marketable skills with a good job history and perhaps even an education to boot.
Think about it this way. If the government guaranteed us all a good amount of vacation time you would be free to seek other better compensating employers without fear of losing that benefit.
I know healthcare in the US is also a big factor. I personally know many people who chose not to leave their job for fear of losing their coverage. I know people who had cancer but would not stop working because they could not afford to lose their coverage.
There are problems and they are very bad. So I guess I agree with you now. We shouldn’t be shitting on things pointlessly. We should be having real conversations about the issues we face.
For sure, I recognize I have some privileges. This includes the paid-time-off allotted to me by my US employer. However, just like the majority of people, the level of privilege is a mixed bag. With heart complications this year, I managed to max out my health insurance deductible a few months before the end of the year. Unfortunately, instead of covering the full cost of the remaining procedures my doctor requested, the insurance provider decided to reject all of my claims after the deductible. Surely, this is not privilege.
As you said, we should have real conversations about the issues we face. My original comment was to reject the unfair premise of the OP, which purposely chose an above-average vacation paid for by a European company and compared it to a significantly below average US vacation, that coincidentally needed to be fully spent on medical recovery. By providing an opposite and personal US-based example, instead of a biased generalization, I hoped these flaws will be more evident.
Furthermore, I do appreciate your willingness to engage in honest conversation. Your responses did lead me to do some research on actual attempts to make progress with paid-time-off minimums. For the lurkers, the most recent attempt is The Protected Time Off Act, introduced to congress in March of 2024. This would provide a two-week minimum paid leave, accruing after 60 days of employment. Please write to your representatives if you want to see this become law.
Also, for those looking for a solid career without an overpriced college degree, look in into local manufacturing. Stuff is made everywhere, and smaller manufacturers are more likely to value internal experience and, in my opinion, treat their employees well. At my employer it’s not unusual for machine operators to get promotions into technician positions (because they know the machines and processes). For the same reason, it’s not unusual for technicians to enter engineering roles (we design most of our machines in-house).
The averages tell a more complete story than the few jobs with good benefits. More broadly, understanding statistics allows you view a larger picture than your own personal experiences.
Of course; however, the OP here had no interest in discussing averages. They chose an above average European vacation time and the interest in tanning on the beach and compared it to a way below average American vacation time, who coincidentally needed to spend all of it recovering from heart surgery. Surely, this was an accurate “complete story.”