Do you actually know what a fascist is or do you think it’s just a synonym for Nazi?
Harris has never advocated for the communal ownership of the means of production.
People who worked with her don’t describe her as a communist.
There isn’t serious debate about if she’s actually a communist or if she just gets really close to the definition.
a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterised by a dictatorial leader, centralised autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy
Is that the definition of fascism, or trumps former chief of staff explaining why he thinks trump is a fascist?
I trust the former head of the joint chiefs of staff, Trump’s former chief of staff, and any number of academics to know what fascism is than I trust you, a person who’s worried about being uncivil to someone who wants to put people in camps.
Like, take a step back and think about what you’re doing. You’re saying it’s insulting and wrong to call a far right populist leader who attempted a coup to stay in power, who has threatened to use the military to bring places that disagree with him into line, who calls his political opponents “the enemy from within” and who calls them evil and their criticism of him illegal a fascist. Even if you don’t see how just that snippet of his behavior warrants the label, why on earth would you care if someone like that was insulted?
We were discussing how he could use his position for good. He could fucking fail at everything he tries to do and leave the country no better and no worse than it is today.
I’m not gonna sit here and jerk the guy off in the hope that he fails at fascism so hard that he somehow deports musk and enacts MAGA-care for all to spite Obama.
Yes, fascism is all about sacrificing individual rights for the benefit of the state, using the military to crush opposition and any “undesirables” along the way.
That doesn’t describe Trump, yet that’s what the left throws around to try to discredit him.
How Democracies Die (2018) looks at actual fascist regimes and compares them to Trump. I agree that there are significant concerns here, but I think there’s an alternative explanation: Trump is merely a narcissist and has no agenda. Everything makes sense through that lens:
rhetoric courting the radical right - they were the most rabid supporters
Jan 6 - he stood by because they were fighting for him
nationalism - if America is “great,” so is the President
populism - again, he wants to be in the news
His actual policies have not been consistent with actual fascism though. He didn’t attack abortion, gay/trans rights, or racial minorities despite a willing base, the most he did was some rhetoric about states rights and pushing for expansion of the southern wall/fence. He didn’t increase aggression militarily toward any of our enemies, his tariffs were pretty mild, etc. He paid lip service to his base, but his main focus was tax cuts and deregulation, which are populist moves that don’t benefit the state at all.
So no, I think the term “fascist” is being thrown around to try to discredit him, which failed because it’s inaccurate. Trump is certainly dangerous, but not because he’s fascist, but because he’s narcissistic and his ideas suck.
I trust the former head of the joint chiefs of staff, Trump’s former chief of staff
Sure, but just know that they have an axe to grind as well, so they have a strong incentive to exaggerate. Again, what they say is troubling, but fits with Trump being a narcissist more than a fascist. He
Harris has never advocated for the communal ownership of the means of production.
Exactly, yet that’s the term the right throws around to try to discredit her.
You’re saying it’s insulting and wrong to call a far right populist leader who attempted a coup to stay in power, who has threatened to use the military to bring places that disagree with him into line, who calls his political opponents “the enemy from within” and who calls them evil and their criticism of him illegal a fascist.
I’m not saying it’s merely insulting, I’m saying it’s inaccurate. If you step away from social media for a second and actually talk to some Trump supporters (not the crazies that paint their trucks or don Q anon nonsense) and read some quality journalism that’s not just spinning the news against Trump, you might get a different perspective. I live in a very red state that’s generally opposed to Trump (dead last in the 2016 primaries, MAGA candidates largely lost), and when I ask people, they say he’s distasteful, but they want him to reduce illegal immigration, reduce drug trafficking (esp. Fentanyl), cut spending and taxes, and hurt China. They don’t care about “culture war” nonsense, they support Ukraine and want the war to end, and they support Israel but think they’ve gone too far in Gaza and want the war to end.
attempted a coup
The evidence I’ve seen is that the Jan 6 rioters arrived at the rally with a plan already, and left the rally early to prepare. I have seen no evidence of direct collusion between Trump and those groups. The clear evidence I’ve seen is Trump trying to abuse loopholes in the law to overturn what he thought was a stolen election (i.e. narcissism), but not doing anything outright illegal. That’s sill not great, but I don’t think it’s an indicator of fascism.
threatened to use the military to bring places that disagree with him into line
Yeah, that’s just saber rattling rhetoric. He has given zero info on what that means, nor has he (AFAIK) mentioned it after winning the election. I think it was just an outlandish statement to rally his base.
calls his political opponents “the enemy from within”
And the same happens in the other direction.
He can say things are illegal, but that doesn’t make them illegal. He doesn’t create the law, he merely enforces the law. We’ll see how far the other branches of government let him take things, but I highly doubt he’s actually interested in subverting democracy, he just wants to stay in the news cycle.
I’m not gonna sit here and jerk the guy off
Neither will I. I think he’s dangerous and do not support him whatsoever, but I’m also not going to make up lies to smear him. I’ll applaud any good moves he makes to hopefully encourage more like it (he’s a narcissist after all), and deride any bad moves he makes.
Where have Democrats called Republicans “evil”, or “the enemy within”, or made allusions to having them arrested for political disagreement?
Also, I like how you dismiss a five star general and people who have actually worked with the man as biased, while also ignoring the whole “historians and political scientists who agree with them”.
I stopped reading when you started assuming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about trump must just be unfamiliar with his supporters and only reading biased news. Don’t be an ass and assume you know the background of the person you’re talking to.
As far as I can tell, you’re a vocal centrist who won’t believe someone has bad intentions just because they tell you what they are. Surrounding themselves with Christian nationalists and detailing their plan to do those things could just be for show, right?
Left-leaning libertarian, and no, Trump is in no way a libertarian (totally deserved the boos at the LP convention).
Neither major party really aligns with my priorities. Democrats consistently push top-down spending plans for businesses they like (union jobs, green energy, etc), and Republicans consistently push top-down spending plans for businesses they like (military contractors, large corporations w/ tax cuts). I align technically with Democrats on social issues (LGBT rights, drug legalization/decriminalization, etc) and Republicans technically on fiscal issues (balanced budget, lower taxes, etc), but neither deliver so I’m affiliated w/ neither. My priorities are:
NIT/UBI as a replacement for most welfare programs - poor people can do a lot more with cash than food stamps/housing assistance; I’d replace SS w/ NIT if I had the option
transparent medical care pricing - insurance isn’t the solution here (screw the ACA), it’s part of the problem; we need to expose the grift that’s happening behind the scenes to drop costs, and perhaps expand Medicare a bit
legalize anything that doesn’t infringe the rights of others - drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc; legalize and tax it all
expand legal immigration so businesses here can expand - anyone should be able to come here to look for a job, and they should be required to leave if they can’t support themselves here
If either party fielded a candidate with those as priorities, they’d get my vote. In fact, if they even did one or two, they’d probably get my vote. But no, Democrats love their social programs (probably for control) and Republicans love clutching their pearls.
I did vote for Biden last election due to Trump being so bad that I thought maybe he’d have a chance in my state (Utah), but besides that, I haven’t voted for a major party candidate since my first election, when I was deluded into actually buying into their BS. That said, I don’t think Trump is fascist, he’s just a terrible narcissist, and I’ll be surprised if he does anything productive outside of his tax cut proposal, messing w/ tariffs, and deporting some undocumented immigrants. He wants to make a show of being the big man in charge, but I don’t think he actually wants to be in complete control.
Do you actually know what a fascist is or do you think it’s just a synonym for Nazi?
Harris has never advocated for the communal ownership of the means of production.
People who worked with her don’t describe her as a communist.
There isn’t serious debate about if she’s actually a communist or if she just gets really close to the definition.
Is that the definition of fascism, or trumps former chief of staff explaining why he thinks trump is a fascist?
I trust the former head of the joint chiefs of staff, Trump’s former chief of staff, and any number of academics to know what fascism is than I trust you, a person who’s worried about being uncivil to someone who wants to put people in camps.
Like, take a step back and think about what you’re doing. You’re saying it’s insulting and wrong to call a far right populist leader who attempted a coup to stay in power, who has threatened to use the military to bring places that disagree with him into line, who calls his political opponents “the enemy from within” and who calls them evil and their criticism of him illegal a fascist. Even if you don’t see how just that snippet of his behavior warrants the label, why on earth would you care if someone like that was insulted?
We were discussing how he could use his position for good. He could fucking fail at everything he tries to do and leave the country no better and no worse than it is today.
I’m not gonna sit here and jerk the guy off in the hope that he fails at fascism so hard that he somehow deports musk and enacts MAGA-care for all to spite Obama.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna175198
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/totally-illegal-trump-escalates-rhetoric-outlawing-political-dissent-c-rcna174280
https://www.durham.ac.uk/research/current/thought-leadership/2024/10/is-trump-a-fascist/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/dispatches/what-does-it-mean-that-donald-trump-is-a-fascist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_and_fascism
Yes, fascism is all about sacrificing individual rights for the benefit of the state, using the military to crush opposition and any “undesirables” along the way.
That doesn’t describe Trump, yet that’s what the left throws around to try to discredit him.
How Democracies Die (2018) looks at actual fascist regimes and compares them to Trump. I agree that there are significant concerns here, but I think there’s an alternative explanation: Trump is merely a narcissist and has no agenda. Everything makes sense through that lens:
His actual policies have not been consistent with actual fascism though. He didn’t attack abortion, gay/trans rights, or racial minorities despite a willing base, the most he did was some rhetoric about states rights and pushing for expansion of the southern wall/fence. He didn’t increase aggression militarily toward any of our enemies, his tariffs were pretty mild, etc. He paid lip service to his base, but his main focus was tax cuts and deregulation, which are populist moves that don’t benefit the state at all.
So no, I think the term “fascist” is being thrown around to try to discredit him, which failed because it’s inaccurate. Trump is certainly dangerous, but not because he’s fascist, but because he’s narcissistic and his ideas suck.
Sure, but just know that they have an axe to grind as well, so they have a strong incentive to exaggerate. Again, what they say is troubling, but fits with Trump being a narcissist more than a fascist. He
Exactly, yet that’s the term the right throws around to try to discredit her.
I’m not saying it’s merely insulting, I’m saying it’s inaccurate. If you step away from social media for a second and actually talk to some Trump supporters (not the crazies that paint their trucks or don Q anon nonsense) and read some quality journalism that’s not just spinning the news against Trump, you might get a different perspective. I live in a very red state that’s generally opposed to Trump (dead last in the 2016 primaries, MAGA candidates largely lost), and when I ask people, they say he’s distasteful, but they want him to reduce illegal immigration, reduce drug trafficking (esp. Fentanyl), cut spending and taxes, and hurt China. They don’t care about “culture war” nonsense, they support Ukraine and want the war to end, and they support Israel but think they’ve gone too far in Gaza and want the war to end.
The evidence I’ve seen is that the Jan 6 rioters arrived at the rally with a plan already, and left the rally early to prepare. I have seen no evidence of direct collusion between Trump and those groups. The clear evidence I’ve seen is Trump trying to abuse loopholes in the law to overturn what he thought was a stolen election (i.e. narcissism), but not doing anything outright illegal. That’s sill not great, but I don’t think it’s an indicator of fascism.
Yeah, that’s just saber rattling rhetoric. He has given zero info on what that means, nor has he (AFAIK) mentioned it after winning the election. I think it was just an outlandish statement to rally his base.
And the same happens in the other direction.
He can say things are illegal, but that doesn’t make them illegal. He doesn’t create the law, he merely enforces the law. We’ll see how far the other branches of government let him take things, but I highly doubt he’s actually interested in subverting democracy, he just wants to stay in the news cycle.
Neither will I. I think he’s dangerous and do not support him whatsoever, but I’m also not going to make up lies to smear him. I’ll applaud any good moves he makes to hopefully encourage more like it (he’s a narcissist after all), and deride any bad moves he makes.
Where have Democrats called Republicans “evil”, or “the enemy within”, or made allusions to having them arrested for political disagreement?
Also, I like how you dismiss a five star general and people who have actually worked with the man as biased, while also ignoring the whole “historians and political scientists who agree with them”.
I stopped reading when you started assuming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about trump must just be unfamiliar with his supporters and only reading biased news. Don’t be an ass and assume you know the background of the person you’re talking to.
As far as I can tell, you’re a vocal centrist who won’t believe someone has bad intentions just because they tell you what they are. Surrounding themselves with Christian nationalists and detailing their plan to do those things could just be for show, right?
Left-leaning libertarian, and no, Trump is in no way a libertarian (totally deserved the boos at the LP convention).
Neither major party really aligns with my priorities. Democrats consistently push top-down spending plans for businesses they like (union jobs, green energy, etc), and Republicans consistently push top-down spending plans for businesses they like (military contractors, large corporations w/ tax cuts). I align technically with Democrats on social issues (LGBT rights, drug legalization/decriminalization, etc) and Republicans technically on fiscal issues (balanced budget, lower taxes, etc), but neither deliver so I’m affiliated w/ neither. My priorities are:
If either party fielded a candidate with those as priorities, they’d get my vote. In fact, if they even did one or two, they’d probably get my vote. But no, Democrats love their social programs (probably for control) and Republicans love clutching their pearls.
I did vote for Biden last election due to Trump being so bad that I thought maybe he’d have a chance in my state (Utah), but besides that, I haven’t voted for a major party candidate since my first election, when I was deluded into actually buying into their BS. That said, I don’t think Trump is fascist, he’s just a terrible narcissist, and I’ll be surprised if he does anything productive outside of his tax cut proposal, messing w/ tariffs, and deporting some undocumented immigrants. He wants to make a show of being the big man in charge, but I don’t think he actually wants to be in complete control.