I guess what Europeans mean by free healthcare is healthcare that doesn’t structurally fuck over the poor, and makes what’s left of the middle class poor as soon as they have a bit of bad luck regarding their health.
Most people that consider european healthcare free do not pay for healthcare because they are still studying. Healthcare is cheaper because the insurance companies are involved in paying the bills and negotiating prices where in the us there is no negotiation.
Healthcare is essentially a progressive tax in Germany. You pay based on your income - and none if you have none, but you get care based on your needs.
I pay around 1300€/month (split about equal between me and my employer, and I’m pretty well paid), even though I cost maybe 10€/month, and the rest is a form of solidarity. That also means, I will literally never be in a situation where I can’t pay for healthcare, even if I’m unemployed.
Yeah anyone who looks at lifetime bills in America Vs Europe and thinks the American system is better because it’s “not actually free in Europe” is completely delusional imo.
It’s free at the point of delivery. The whole of society pays for the whole of societies health care. As you mention it can mean young people paying more than they currently cost (although let’s not ignore the young people who do have serious issues and likely wouldn’t have a big employer funded healthcare plan), but when you’re older you’re paying way less than you cost, and don’t have all the anxiety about whether you can afford a preventative treatment, or if your medical bills will bankrupt you and make you homeless at age 70. That’s well worth the up front minor expenditure that comes out of your taxes and isn’t noticiable to me.
American salaries are higher, but they tend to spend (what looks to me at least) as a similar amount on taxes and healthcare as people in Europe do, but have much less to show for it.
No shit, literally no one actually thinks this when they say “free healthcare” what they mean is that it’s free for the individual. As in, you don’t have to deplete your life savings because you had an injury.
It is not free for the individual. People pay 800 Euro for healthcare per month regardless if they need it or not. Everyone contributes to paying the bills except the young and very poor.
Read what i said. You assume shit because of voices in your head. I stated what is real without any judgment.
You assume my opinion based pn a picture your brain painted based on nothing.
I did not voice an opinion anywhere.
Final costs depend on the healthcare provider. They can add an additional fee. On top comes a fee for special care for long term disability. That is technically a different system but is paid the same way. It may ne noteworthy that these fees are paid before income tax is calculated.
If you live in the UK and earn £100k per annum (which puts you in the highest tax bracket), then you are paying £460 per month for all social securities including healthcare. If you earn less, you pay less. Where did you get this €800 from? Your dumb ass?
I’m not saying you’re wrong but you are being pedantic: aka the worst kind of right.
It’s free in the same sense that a free school lunch is free: the exchange of money happened long before/after the actual goods or services get to the person who needs it
No, we also talk about it because it stops working when people don’t treat it right. In Germany the system will very likely change because it is not affordable anymore. Politicians are already discussing things like people should have to pay the first few thousands of healthcare costs by themselves.
Yeah I know, perhaps you might say thats still better than in America. But to treat it like healthcare is free and grows on trees is just false. But because a lot of people treated it that way it’s now going downhill.
Talking about that doesn’t make you anti-socialism. It’s really discerning how people on social media only accepts discussion that follows the overall cheers. You aren’t against something just because you want to discuss it.
People know and understand that - that’s why countries with high tax rates aren’t seeing people throw tea in the water on a regular basis. They understand that they have representation and a share in the value that comes having those relatively high tax rates.
How? All I want is to replace the term free healthcare with socialized healthcare. All the other arguments here only exist because people assume opinions that where never voiced.
Lol, the bill is literally a piece of paper backed by other pieces of paper that the richest people on the planet demand have value because they choose who has the paper they hand out.
What you mean to say is, the labor must be done, and it is. The part you refuse to accept is the laborers must have a sustainable life and they don’t.
Not sure why you’d single out that particular country. Not to be rude, but it sounds like your implied preference may be more ideological than evidence based.
Ok, red khemer. Threatening people is a good way to win arguments. By the way… i did not argue anywhere. You made up a fake quotation. What is wrong with you?
That’s not much of an argument when you consider that places like the US still spend just as much money with Healthcare, without providing free services to the population.
Free healthcare does not exist. Someone will pay the bill. The bill may not be ridiculously inflated but someone pays.
I guess what Europeans mean by free healthcare is healthcare that doesn’t structurally fuck over the poor, and makes what’s left of the middle class poor as soon as they have a bit of bad luck regarding their health.
Most people that consider european healthcare free do not pay for healthcare because they are still studying. Healthcare is cheaper because the insurance companies are involved in paying the bills and negotiating prices where in the us there is no negotiation.
Healthcare is essentially a progressive tax in Germany. You pay based on your income - and none if you have none, but you get care based on your needs.
I pay around 1300€/month (split about equal between me and my employer, and I’m pretty well paid), even though I cost maybe 10€/month, and the rest is a form of solidarity. That also means, I will literally never be in a situation where I can’t pay for healthcare, even if I’m unemployed.
Yeah anyone who looks at lifetime bills in America Vs Europe and thinks the American system is better because it’s “not actually free in Europe” is completely delusional imo.
It’s free at the point of delivery. The whole of society pays for the whole of societies health care. As you mention it can mean young people paying more than they currently cost (although let’s not ignore the young people who do have serious issues and likely wouldn’t have a big employer funded healthcare plan), but when you’re older you’re paying way less than you cost, and don’t have all the anxiety about whether you can afford a preventative treatment, or if your medical bills will bankrupt you and make you homeless at age 70. That’s well worth the up front minor expenditure that comes out of your taxes and isn’t noticiable to me.
American salaries are higher, but they tend to spend (what looks to me at least) as a similar amount on taxes and healthcare as people in Europe do, but have much less to show for it.
You technically can fall out off the system, bit it rarely happens. Not sure about the details though.
https://www.vdk.de/deutschland/pages/themen/gesundheit/82041/rueckkehr_zur_krankenversicherung_nicht_aufschieben?dscc=ok
No shit, literally no one actually thinks this when they say “free healthcare” what they mean is that it’s free for the individual. As in, you don’t have to deplete your life savings because you had an injury.
It is not free for the individual. People pay 800 Euro for healthcare per month regardless if they need it or not. Everyone contributes to paying the bills except the young and very poor.
That’s because those two groups CANT PAY THE TAX CAUSE THEY DONT HAVE ANY MONEY.
Do you also hate public roads? After all your taxes go to fixing those even if you don’t own a car!
We can play this dumb shit game all day.
Read what i said. You assume shit because of voices in your head. I stated what is real without any judgment. You assume my opinion based pn a picture your brain painted based on nothing. I did not voice an opinion anywhere.
Please show me a single European under public healthcare paying 800 euro per month…
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https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/beitraege.html
That link looks like the highest max (for self-employed) is still lower than 800€? Am I not reading that right?
Final costs depend on the healthcare provider. They can add an additional fee. On top comes a fee for special care for long term disability. That is technically a different system but is paid the same way. It may ne noteworthy that these fees are paid before income tax is calculated.
If you live in the UK and earn £100k per annum (which puts you in the highest tax bracket), then you are paying £460 per month for all social securities including healthcare. If you earn less, you pay less. Where did you get this €800 from? Your dumb ass?
Your manners are pretty decent for earning so much money. Gratulations. Not everyone is living in the uk…
I’m not saying you’re wrong but you are being pedantic: aka the worst kind of right.
It’s free in the same sense that a free school lunch is free: the exchange of money happened long before/after the actual goods or services get to the person who needs it
They know. Most people that use that argument just want to make their position known, ie: socialism bad.
No, we also talk about it because it stops working when people don’t treat it right. In Germany the system will very likely change because it is not affordable anymore. Politicians are already discussing things like people should have to pay the first few thousands of healthcare costs by themselves.
Yeah I know, perhaps you might say thats still better than in America. But to treat it like healthcare is free and grows on trees is just false. But because a lot of people treated it that way it’s now going downhill.
Talking about that doesn’t make you anti-socialism. It’s really discerning how people on social media only accepts discussion that follows the overall cheers. You aren’t against something just because you want to discuss it.
Why are they using wrong language and disregarding peoples contributions then?
Okay what would you call it?
I am not pedantic. I am precise. People need to understand that other people pay for their treatment and it does not just happen.
People know and understand that - that’s why countries with high tax rates aren’t seeing people throw tea in the water on a regular basis. They understand that they have representation and a share in the value that comes having those relatively high tax rates.
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No one thinks that though so I’m not sure who you’re trying to preach to.
How? All I want is to replace the term free healthcare with socialized healthcare. All the other arguments here only exist because people assume opinions that where never voiced.
Lol, the bill is literally a piece of paper backed by other pieces of paper that the richest people on the planet demand have value because they choose who has the paper they hand out.
What you mean to say is, the labor must be done, and it is. The part you refuse to accept is the laborers must have a sustainable life and they don’t.
Ok, enjoy socialist healthcare like cuba then…
There are many other countries with socialised healthcare.
Not sure why you’d single out that particular country. Not to be rude, but it sounds like your implied preference may be more ideological than evidence based.
Who does socialised healthcare hurt, anyway?
Dude you can’t survive as a boot licking parasite for very long. Eventually the boot steps.
What pathetic ideology do you believe in that it excludes a fair wage for workers?
Ok, red khemer. Threatening people is a good way to win arguments. By the way… i did not argue anywhere. You made up a fake quotation. What is wrong with you?
Lol the irony, and what kind of threat? You are seriously pathetic to try and play a victim in that discussion.
What discussion? You are making up what you think i said. The are no arguments anywhere. You are trolling.
That’s not much of an argument when you consider that places like the US still spend just as much money with Healthcare, without providing free services to the population.