The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.

An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.

  • Nora
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    1 year ago

    well they don’t have fucking brains lol. why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move? it would be a waste of energy. an oyster’s nervous system is about as complex as your finger…

    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move?

      there is no proof any nonhuman animal has a “desire to live” because there isn’t proof they understand personal mortality.

      as for whether they have the capacity to suffer, which is all that sentience really seems to require, you can’t prove that they don’t have the capacity to suffer because you can’t prove a negative. the best you can say is that you don’t think there is enough evidence to support a claim that they ARE sentient.

      • Nora
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        1 year ago

        if you saw a human from a tribe who spoke a language you would never understand, how do you know they feel pain and want to live? if you kick a dog, how do you know the dog didn’t enjoy it? maybe people who are asleep dont feel pain or want to live. lets just eat people in comas, or who speak other languages, and lets beat dogs because its so unclear whether they like it or not

        Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

        • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

          none of this is proof they understand personal mortality, which is the crux if this disagreement.

          • Nora
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            1 year ago

            No it’s not the crux. Avoiding danger to protect their lives is pretty good proof.

            A man follows a woman and she runs away.

            The man: “she could still wanna have sex”

            Maybe you’d be better seeing all the animals that mourn deaths of others.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Avoiding danger to protect their lives is pretty good proof.

              you’re observing behavior and assuming cognition. you need to prove the cognition, and behavior is evidence but not proof.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Maybe you’d be better seeing all the animals that mourn deaths of others.

              mourning death of others is not proof that an animal know it, itself, might die.

              • Nora
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                1 year ago

                ah the “I’m not touching you” argument

                • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  this distinction is the crux of the matter. your inability to address it meaningfully and nonsequitur of an accusation belie either a lack of understanding or a malicious intent to engage in bad faith. i can see no other explanation.

        • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          maybe sentience or wanting to live aren’t metrics we should use as the basis of our morality.

          • Nora
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            1 year ago

            no, you are just the only one stupid enough to think its unprovable

              • Nora
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                1 year ago

                You’re one to talk. No you said “you cant prove” like a million times

                • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  you’re saying i said you can’t prove something i didn’t say you couldn’t prove though. you literally invented a position.

              • Nora
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                1 year ago

                Do you wish to feel pain, or be murdered? Probably not, so why would you do it to someone else with the capacity to feel pain and desire to live? Empathy is the basis.

                • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  sometimes pain is necessary or even good. and the only creature i know of which understands personal mortality, and so can have a desire to live, is humans, and i think homicide is bad, but i don’t think that is related to having a desire to live.

                  • Nora
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                    1 year ago

                    but you havent spoken to all humans. you haven’t proven they feel pain. pain being a necessity or good is your opinion. If I think, “hmm i like being raped”, does that make it okay to do to others, or should i be smart enough to see that other people dont like it WITHOUT having to literally fucking ask them. What does this argument matter when you are the kind of mf who wouldn’t understand consent. “Uh your honor, they didnt say they werent enjoying it and thus there was no other way to tell they didnt want to have sex”