serious question - if Jews in a ghetto during WW2 got together some weapons, revolted, left the ghetto and killed a bunch of German civilians partying right outside the ghetto, would you call it “genocidal” and “terrorism” and say “yes, while Nazi Germany is bad, so are these Jews who committed terrorism”?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I would. Mindless violence is never a good thing…
Most German citizens were not nazis, just as most Israeli citizens aren’t in favor of genocide. A powerful and motivated political minority is a scary thing indeed, kinda like Repubs in the US, or the current leaders of Israel, or Hamas, or the countless far-right Renaissances happening across Europe rn. Need I go on?
Again, I don’t disagree that Israel is genocidal. That doesn’t mean mindless violence and genocide in return are anywhere near the answer. There’s a reason MLK would leave cities if protesting turned into rioting. Even when you have the right answers, turning to violence isn’t a solution.
Does it suck to take the high road all the time? Yeah. Do you have to do it to not fall to the same level as the opponents? Also yes.
it doesn’t suck for you to take the high road, you’re sitting in the west living a comfortable life, it’s super easy for you to ‘condemn’ both sides and go on with your day. what are Gazans supposed to do? they’re living in hell on earth, and the entire world had turned their backs on them.
peacefully protest? they’ve tried that
try to get the word out about how bad their situation is? they’ve tried that
what should they have done instead? just do nothing and let Israel keep building settlements and murdering them and commit a slow genocide? I can’t blame them for violently struggling in whatever means possible. even under international law, occupied populations have the right to engage in armed struggle. it sucks that it came to this, but Israel is responsible for every death that happens because they want to commit genocide against the native population rather than peacefully coexist.
The Jews would have been justified in killing every German they could get their hands on if it could help stop the Holocaust.
A genocidal society has no right to claim the mercy of a civilian/soldier distinction. They do not recognize it themselves.
It is a horrible tragedy on a personal level. No one person has any power over the situation they find themselves in, but that is the brutal logic of war. Societies will feel less safe in engaging in targeting civilians if their own are subject to retaliation when they do so.
Look at pictures of Germany after the war and tell me it wasn’t violence against Germany. Are you fucking kidding me? Over 500k German civilians died in the bombing raids.
“It was just collateral damage” - the words of a fucking coward who refuse to admit what they’ve done
It sucks they died but ending the Holocaust and Nazi Germany was a moral necessity.
Sorry, since when did anything other than land invasion end the European theater of wwII? I’m pretty sure it’s not widespread knowledge that Hitler killed himself in response to the bombing of Dresden…
The fact that you can’t tell the difference between a music festival and the kind of infrastructure important to warfare that were bombed during WWII doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, but it does sadden me.
This is so absurdly nitpicky I’m not sure what to say. The bombings of Germany DEFINITELY damaged their industry, which helped end the war.
Are you really implying that no innocent civilians were butchered by the ground invasion of Europe? (Also, hilariously, you left out that Japan was literally defeated without a ground invasion of Japan. Same war, buddy.)
You just seem like you can’t accept wars mean violence against a people, not a military/government. It’s a child’s propaganda understanding of warfare that you have.
Sorry, since when did anything other than land invasion end the European theater of wwII? I’m pretty sure it’s not widespread knowledge that Hitler killed himself in response to the bombing of Dresden…
Japanese gov is irrelevant to this argument; don’t change the goalposts. It’s a different situation entirely, as the gov refused to back down after already being beaten in the actual theater of war. Bombing was the only way to avoid an incredibly costly land invasion of Japan.
Seems like you might benefit from opening up a history book.
serious question - if Jews in a ghetto during WW2 got together some weapons, revolted, left the ghetto and killed a bunch of German civilians partying right outside the ghetto, would you call it “genocidal” and “terrorism” and say “yes, while Nazi Germany is bad, so are these Jews who committed terrorism”?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I would. Mindless violence is never a good thing…
Most German citizens were not nazis, just as most Israeli citizens aren’t in favor of genocide. A powerful and motivated political minority is a scary thing indeed, kinda like Repubs in the US, or the current leaders of Israel, or Hamas, or the countless far-right Renaissances happening across Europe rn. Need I go on?
Again, I don’t disagree that Israel is genocidal. That doesn’t mean mindless violence and genocide in return are anywhere near the answer. There’s a reason MLK would leave cities if protesting turned into rioting. Even when you have the right answers, turning to violence isn’t a solution.
Does it suck to take the high road all the time? Yeah. Do you have to do it to not fall to the same level as the opponents? Also yes.
it doesn’t suck for you to take the high road, you’re sitting in the west living a comfortable life, it’s super easy for you to ‘condemn’ both sides and go on with your day. what are Gazans supposed to do? they’re living in hell on earth, and the entire world had turned their backs on them.
peacefully protest? they’ve tried that
try to get the word out about how bad their situation is? they’ve tried that
what should they have done instead? just do nothing and let Israel keep building settlements and murdering them and commit a slow genocide? I can’t blame them for violently struggling in whatever means possible. even under international law, occupied populations have the right to engage in armed struggle. it sucks that it came to this, but Israel is responsible for every death that happens because they want to commit genocide against the native population rather than peacefully coexist.
Occupied populations absolutely have the right to engage in an armed struggle, just not the right to murder…
I do sit in an ivory tower here, but so do you, and that doesn’t make either of our words ring less true.
Take the words and actions of MLK, somebody who actually accomplished great social change while not living in that ivory tower.
Hate begets hate.
The Jews would have been justified in killing every German they could get their hands on if it could help stop the Holocaust.
A genocidal society has no right to claim the mercy of a civilian/soldier distinction. They do not recognize it themselves.
It is a horrible tragedy on a personal level. No one person has any power over the situation they find themselves in, but that is the brutal logic of war. Societies will feel less safe in engaging in targeting civilians if their own are subject to retaliation when they do so.
But would it? No.
It wouldn’t help stop the holocaust, only create death and destruction, that’s kinda the whole point…
The death of your brother doesn’t make you want to forgive his murderer and instead radicalizes you more deeply against him.
Is Israel stopping the targeting of citizens now? No! They’ve cut off water and electricity to Gaza again.
Hate begets hate, dumbfuck.
Violence against Germany literally ended the Holocaust so you are just a clown.
I guess you would have sent thoughts and prayers to the extermination camps.
*violence against the German government and its armies.
Sorry you forgot a couple words there so I fixed it…
Or are we literally just rewriting history here?
Look at pictures of Germany after the war and tell me it wasn’t violence against Germany. Are you fucking kidding me? Over 500k German civilians died in the bombing raids.
“It was just collateral damage” - the words of a fucking coward who refuse to admit what they’ve done
It sucks they died but ending the Holocaust and Nazi Germany was a moral necessity.
Sorry, since when did anything other than land invasion end the European theater of wwII? I’m pretty sure it’s not widespread knowledge that Hitler killed himself in response to the bombing of Dresden…
The fact that you can’t tell the difference between a music festival and the kind of infrastructure important to warfare that were bombed during WWII doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, but it does sadden me.
This is so absurdly nitpicky I’m not sure what to say. The bombings of Germany DEFINITELY damaged their industry, which helped end the war.
Are you really implying that no innocent civilians were butchered by the ground invasion of Europe? (Also, hilariously, you left out that Japan was literally defeated without a ground invasion of Japan. Same war, buddy.)
You just seem like you can’t accept wars mean violence against a people, not a military/government. It’s a child’s propaganda understanding of warfare that you have.
Oh, is leveling Dresden with incindiary bombs targeting “the german government?” Is nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki “targeting the japanese army?”
Sorry, since when did anything other than land invasion end the European theater of wwII? I’m pretty sure it’s not widespread knowledge that Hitler killed himself in response to the bombing of Dresden…
Japanese gov is irrelevant to this argument; don’t change the goalposts. It’s a different situation entirely, as the gov refused to back down after already being beaten in the actual theater of war. Bombing was the only way to avoid an incredibly costly land invasion of Japan.
Seems like you might benefit from opening up a history book.
dork