Going to word this very carefully so it doesn’t come off wrong. I was only slightly aware of the movement in general. Then I read about it being common for these individuals to be men trying to avoid childcare payments. And then it clicked why it seems to be mostly men in general and very few women. Many of the men seeming to be in the 20-40 age range.
I’m not sure how it started off. Lately seems more about avoidance of responsibility. Instead of the weirdo libertarian movement I was assuming was going on. But ultimately I kinda don’t think that’s important. It’s just sad.
It actually has roots in the white supremacist ‘religion’ that is called Christian Identity dating back to 1971, which is still active today as well. In the 1990s the Moorish Science Temple began having an offshoot of sovcits among their members. There is also a Hawaiian sovcit movement.
Interesting! Out of curiosity, you obviously have a trove of these posts from communities…are you just a whacko connoisseur? Or does the sovcit movement specifically interest you? Were you ever a part of it? How do you know so much about it?
So I am interested in right wing extremists in general; I maintain a Facebook alt simply for the purpose of infiltrating white supremacists (and getting them in trouble and getting their accounts deleted-even reported two Capitol rioters). Sovereign citizens are an offshoot of that interest, but they’re mostly just funny to me because they’re so ridiculous, although I do think they’re somewhat dangerous to their children if nothing else. The ADL does some sovereign citizen work and I find it very interesting, and the ADL researcher Mark Pitcavage maintains a special interest in sovereign citizens which is what got me into them. I recommend his Twitter as well as that of Dr Christine Sarteschi who has written a book about sovereign citizens.
My big interest is the rise of Christian Identity ideology among young white supremacists, it’s something researchers are just really starting to take notice of, and I supply journalists and researchers information as well. I think CI is what’s causing younger white supremacist groups like Patriot Front to attract members and also to what’s called the trad life movement.
I am a lefty antifascist from cradle to grave, and have never had association with anyone on the right in any form, I think they’re all dumber than a bag of hammers. I spend immense amounts of time immersed in these strange worlds and I’ve only become more repelled by their beliefs over the last five years.
IMO it’s less of a political movement and more of a cult. These people are being completely misled by others, in a way they’re victims.
It’s one thing to feel the world should be a certain way. It’s another to think there’s some magic phrase you can put on your car’s bumper to be immune from prosecution, but no one else knows the secret.
I think it also feeds their need to feel special. They are in the super secret club that knows the passwords and all these stupid sheeple are getting played.
It does seem that way now. It was political at first. But economic downturns and the internet seem likely reasons behind why it’s spreading. Desperate people doing desperate things. While being led by crazy people.
Now we don’t have stats of SovCit by skin colour, but if it truly tends to be men trying to dodge childcare payments then it seems realistic that there would be a surprising number of black men (even if the movement tends to be associated with people leaning right) considering that a higher % of black families are raised by a single mother…
I’ve read this is still pretty niche. Might not be enough examples to make any accurate analysis.
But I have to assume in times the economy gets worse for ordinary people that extra bit of desperation leads some to hope for this kind of bunk to be the answer.
Going to word this very carefully so it doesn’t come off wrong. I was only slightly aware of the movement in general. Then I read about it being common for these individuals to be men trying to avoid childcare payments. And then it clicked why it seems to be mostly men in general and very few women. Many of the men seeming to be in the 20-40 age range.
I’m not sure how it started off. Lately seems more about avoidance of responsibility. Instead of the weirdo libertarian movement I was assuming was going on. But ultimately I kinda don’t think that’s important. It’s just sad.
It actually has roots in the white supremacist ‘religion’ that is called Christian Identity dating back to 1971, which is still active today as well. In the 1990s the Moorish Science Temple began having an offshoot of sovcits among their members. There is also a Hawaiian sovcit movement.
Interesting! Out of curiosity, you obviously have a trove of these posts from communities…are you just a whacko connoisseur? Or does the sovcit movement specifically interest you? Were you ever a part of it? How do you know so much about it?
So I am interested in right wing extremists in general; I maintain a Facebook alt simply for the purpose of infiltrating white supremacists (and getting them in trouble and getting their accounts deleted-even reported two Capitol rioters). Sovereign citizens are an offshoot of that interest, but they’re mostly just funny to me because they’re so ridiculous, although I do think they’re somewhat dangerous to their children if nothing else. The ADL does some sovereign citizen work and I find it very interesting, and the ADL researcher Mark Pitcavage maintains a special interest in sovereign citizens which is what got me into them. I recommend his Twitter as well as that of Dr Christine Sarteschi who has written a book about sovereign citizens.
My big interest is the rise of Christian Identity ideology among young white supremacists, it’s something researchers are just really starting to take notice of, and I supply journalists and researchers information as well. I think CI is what’s causing younger white supremacist groups like Patriot Front to attract members and also to what’s called the trad life movement.
I am a lefty antifascist from cradle to grave, and have never had association with anyone on the right in any form, I think they’re all dumber than a bag of hammers. I spend immense amounts of time immersed in these strange worlds and I’ve only become more repelled by their beliefs over the last five years.
Hawaiian sovereignty or rich white dudes, not really fair to lump those things together
not really in support of those guys either but a number of them are self sufficient if they had natural resource control
IMO it’s less of a political movement and more of a cult. These people are being completely misled by others, in a way they’re victims.
It’s one thing to feel the world should be a certain way. It’s another to think there’s some magic phrase you can put on your car’s bumper to be immune from prosecution, but no one else knows the secret.
I think it also feeds their need to feel special. They are in the super secret club that knows the passwords and all these stupid sheeple are getting played.
It does seem that way now. It was political at first. But economic downturns and the internet seem likely reasons behind why it’s spreading. Desperate people doing desperate things. While being led by crazy people.
“They’re the same picture.”
I went looking for the stats just to see how much weight we could give to your hypothesis
https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/population/qa01202.asp?qaDate=2022
Now we don’t have stats of SovCit by skin colour, but if it truly tends to be men trying to dodge childcare payments then it seems realistic that there would be a surprising number of black men (even if the movement tends to be associated with people leaning right) considering that a higher % of black families are raised by a single mother…
I’ve read this is still pretty niche. Might not be enough examples to make any accurate analysis.
But I have to assume in times the economy gets worse for ordinary people that extra bit of desperation leads some to hope for this kind of bunk to be the answer.