If you don’t support the free speech rights of the people you hate the most, then you’re against free speech.
Being against free speech is tyrannical. Also…Can you point to any time in history where the people censoring controversial things were the good guys in the ensuing conflict?
Can you point to any time in history where the people censoring controversial things were the good guys in the ensuing conflict?
Whether there’s “good guys” in a war is debatable. But if you’re under the belief that there are good guys in wars, then we can point to basically every war in history.
Censorship during wars was actually the norm in the past. The Spanish influenza didn’t originate in Spain, it’s just that it was first reported there. Because Spain wasn’t a part of WWI. The news in the countries involved in the war were censored and couldn’t report on it.
Nazi propaganda was banned in the US and other allied countries in WWII.
People in the American Revolution were publicly tortured (tarred and feathered) for speaking out against the revolutionary government.
Sorry, history just isn’t as clean and simple as you might think.
Just to add to this, shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater when there is no fire is a phrase often used to define to limits of free speech. However, this was an analogy used by Oliver Wendell Holmes to describe what it is like to oppose the draft in WWI. That part of the ruling stood for about 40 years.
Germany made being a Nazi illegal and everyone is fine with it.
Denazification was something of a joke.
West German President Walter Scheel and Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger were both former members of the Nazi Party. In 1950, a major controversy broke out when it emerged that Konrad Adenauer’s State Secretary Hans Globke had played a major role in drafting antisemitic Nuremberg Race Laws in Nazi Germany.
Between Operation Paperclip, the incorporation of the CIA, and the Cold War formation of NATO, Nazis were rapidly reformed and reintroduced to the public sphere over the next decade.
Operation GLADIO in Europe transformed a bunch of the Italy / Greek / Belgium / France WW2-era fascists into cartel bosses and arms dealers spread all across the continent. Fascist ideology, in the wake of WW2, was returned to its original Communist roots and was justified as a means of compelling Europeans to stay true to their nationalist roots and not fall victim to the Soviet Internationalism sweeping through the Middle East, Latin America, and Africa.
If you don’t support the free speech rights of the people you hate the most, then you’re against free speech.
The one snag in this philosophy I run into is that “We have to protect the rights of the accused!” only ever seems to apply to the folks that can pay for the good PR and lawyers. Meanwhile, the Sinclair owned broadcaster in your neck of the woods spams “Black man behaving blackly in black part of Blacksburg! Officers on the scene to assist in the kinetic engagement of criminal suspect!” headlines headlines 24/7/365 and then the same limited government enthusiasts create this enormous mental carve out for people they identify as Violent By Nature.
Then you get a local jail full of Sandra Blands and the only people who bat an eye are casually dismissed as Far-Left Defund the Police BLM Rioters.
On the one hand, an ex-President with 91 indictments who moves through the criminal justice system at the speed of a snail. On the other, George Floyd getting his neck flattened because he passed a retailer a bad $20. And if you question the glacial pace of the first case, you’re accused of advocating the second. But also, if you oppose the casual police murder of suspects, you secretly want Donald Trumps doing industrial scale counterfeiting all over Minneapolis uncontested.
Thanks to you fucking assholes we now have shitloads of Nazis and thousands of far right radicalizing conspiracist talk shows over all forms of media. You couldn’t budge on even the least amount of reasonable regulation and now you have entirely fucked up nearly all of the civilized western world.
This is a huge mixture of a problem with how we raise kids, a problem with the education system, and problems with people’s livelihoods. Not really anything to do with free speech.
Anybody can just have a child and we’re coming out of 3 generations of fathers going to wars, lots of our kids aren’t raised well and don’t realize they need to see a psychologist.
Our education system is pretty shit, fails to motivate kids or understand how a child in 2024 retains information, and so the kids don’t care and they don’t learn and now you have millions of young adults who don’t know that you can’t just take what some youtuber says at face value.
And lots of people struggling to make ends meet means there are going to be a lot of people who don’t understand what they’re doing wrong and will look for a scapegoat.
And free speech. Don’t forget that.
If you don’t support the free speech rights of the people you hate the most, then you’re against free speech.
Being against free speech is tyrannical. Also…Can you point to any time in history where the people censoring controversial things were the good guys in the ensuing conflict?
Whether there’s “good guys” in a war is debatable. But if you’re under the belief that there are good guys in wars, then we can point to basically every war in history.
Censorship during wars was actually the norm in the past. The Spanish influenza didn’t originate in Spain, it’s just that it was first reported there. Because Spain wasn’t a part of WWI. The news in the countries involved in the war were censored and couldn’t report on it.
Nazi propaganda was banned in the US and other allied countries in WWII.
People in the American Revolution were publicly tortured (tarred and feathered) for speaking out against the revolutionary government.
Sorry, history just isn’t as clean and simple as you might think.
Just to add to this, shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater when there is no fire is a phrase often used to define to limits of free speech. However, this was an analogy used by Oliver Wendell Holmes to describe what it is like to oppose the draft in WWI. That part of the ruling stood for about 40 years.
How about Poland in ww2? I’d say they were “the good guys” since they were attacked unprovoked.
Fallacious logic. “If case X is true then it must be true in every case.”
Germany made being a Nazi illegal and everyone is fine with it. Except Nazis, but who gives a shit.
Denazification was something of a joke.
West German President Walter Scheel and Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger were both former members of the Nazi Party. In 1950, a major controversy broke out when it emerged that Konrad Adenauer’s State Secretary Hans Globke had played a major role in drafting antisemitic Nuremberg Race Laws in Nazi Germany.
Between Operation Paperclip, the incorporation of the CIA, and the Cold War formation of NATO, Nazis were rapidly reformed and reintroduced to the public sphere over the next decade.
Operation GLADIO in Europe transformed a bunch of the Italy / Greek / Belgium / France WW2-era fascists into cartel bosses and arms dealers spread all across the continent. Fascist ideology, in the wake of WW2, was returned to its original Communist roots and was justified as a means of compelling Europeans to stay true to their nationalist roots and not fall victim to the Soviet Internationalism sweeping through the Middle East, Latin America, and Africa.
The one snag in this philosophy I run into is that “We have to protect the rights of the accused!” only ever seems to apply to the folks that can pay for the good PR and lawyers. Meanwhile, the Sinclair owned broadcaster in your neck of the woods spams “Black man behaving blackly in black part of Blacksburg! Officers on the scene to assist in the kinetic engagement of criminal suspect!” headlines headlines 24/7/365 and then the same limited government enthusiasts create this enormous mental carve out for people they identify as Violent By Nature.
Then you get a local jail full of Sandra Blands and the only people who bat an eye are casually dismissed as Far-Left Defund the Police BLM Rioters.
On the one hand, an ex-President with 91 indictments who moves through the criminal justice system at the speed of a snail. On the other, George Floyd getting his neck flattened because he passed a retailer a bad $20. And if you question the glacial pace of the first case, you’re accused of advocating the second. But also, if you oppose the casual police murder of suspects, you secretly want Donald Trumps doing industrial scale counterfeiting all over Minneapolis uncontested.
Thanks to you fucking assholes we now have shitloads of Nazis and thousands of far right radicalizing conspiracist talk shows over all forms of media. You couldn’t budge on even the least amount of reasonable regulation and now you have entirely fucked up nearly all of the civilized western world.
Fucking idiot
This is a huge mixture of a problem with how we raise kids, a problem with the education system, and problems with people’s livelihoods. Not really anything to do with free speech.
Anybody can just have a child and we’re coming out of 3 generations of fathers going to wars, lots of our kids aren’t raised well and don’t realize they need to see a psychologist.
Our education system is pretty shit, fails to motivate kids or understand how a child in 2024 retains information, and so the kids don’t care and they don’t learn and now you have millions of young adults who don’t know that you can’t just take what some youtuber says at face value.
And lots of people struggling to make ends meet means there are going to be a lot of people who don’t understand what they’re doing wrong and will look for a scapegoat.
Free speech is never the problem.