How have others gotten friends/family to make the switch? I’ve been doing a cleanup of my digital life over the last year or so and am trying to move to using more privacy friendly alternatives where possible.
example: I’d love to switch to Signal only but everyone I know only uses WhatsApp. I’ve mentioned switching to people in the past but it’s always the same response (I don’t have anything to hide)
The unfortunate fact is that most people don’t care about their privacy until it’s violated. It’s weird.
I’ve seen people complain about companies like Meta and Google but then not make any effort to try and change…people can be weird sometimes.
I suppose there are a lot of factors at play, but still 🤷🏻♂️
There’s a balance between principles and practicality and for a lot of people it just hasn’t tipped yet. I’m kind of in that boat myself.
On principle, I’d like to eliminate Google from my life entirely.
In practice, there is no good alternative to Google Maps. I’ve tried a bunch of OSM-based apps and they’re just not there yet. So I use Google Maps. Not happy about it, but I still use it.
I use osmand in conjunction with gps-coordinates.net so I can get the GPS coordinates of addresses to put into osmand since it has a serious lack of addresses
Open street map data is created by volunteers. Where I live, you can practically put in any address into OsmAnd and it’ll know it. Maybe you live too far out. Or there aren’t enough people contributing in your area. Putting in the house numbers is a tedious task.
I highly suspect it’s a lack of contributors since I live in a small city in the United States (~50k population).
Ah, okay. Different continent, ~500k people here. More if you count the neighboring cities. I’ve programmed in a few house numbers like 10 years ago. But generally speaking, OSM knows most hiking routes and illegal mountainbike trails in the woods. And it rarely does silly mistakes while routing me in the car. Something it used to do regularly when I started using it. Guess the experience heavily depends on where you live, then.
Apple Maps is a good alternative if you have an iPhone. Apple may not be a whole lot better, but at least they aren’t an advertising company.
How sad it is when “at least they aren’t an advertising company” is one of the better alternatives!
Yep. And YouTube on teevee, just got to pay for it. I can’t suffer these ads.
No real replacement as of now for either.
Imagine paying and they are still mining you.
Wtf sort of dystopian bullshit time line is this.
Stop using them for everything else.
Ironically I found the best way to watch YouTube on the TV was to pay Google for a “Chromecast with Android TV” (or whatever it’s called) and install SmartTube on it. I could have spent a while tinkering around with my Raspberry Pi to create some custom solution and given Google no money, but this cost less than 2 months of YouTube premium and now I’ve got a device I can do whatever with.
Didn’t realize that was possible now you ate running on google controlled device…
I cant swallow that.
Hate paying them too tho
I’m paying for the convenience of a tv-optimised android device. It’s relatively versatile in that you can install most android apps, but much more robust than trying to build something myself. And all I use it for is watching video so there’s not really much it can data-mine compared to something serious like my phone.
I just switched to Petal Maps, though it doesn’t warn me if a place is closing soon.
I’d like to give Petal Maps a serious try, but for some reason it doesn’t work with CarPlay. So it’s a no-go for me.
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@hperrin @governorkeagan Until they *realise* how much and for how long it’s been violated.
It’s worse for me in my country, 90% of people use Viber. Which not only has the same lack of privacy with other popular messengers, it’s also ugly, filled with ads and company bots, and it’s obviously targeted to teenagers. It’s so weird to me that people use this app, but I guess most people’s choice is always “whatever my most contacts use”. I’ve been trying to introduce my friends to something better, I would prefer Signal but literally zero of my contacts use it. On Telegram on the other hand, I found 4-5 of my contacts already using it so I started from there, added my family too, and I’m slowly trying to add more friends. Until then, like others said, I’ll use whatever for a casual message, and I’ll just call the person for anything more personal or private.
Yeah that’s what sucks about this. But you don’t have to really call for intimate messages. WhatsApp cannot read you message since it’s E2EE but they do store and use the metadata. So a casual message and an intimate messages are the same in a WhatsApp server’s eyes.
Viber is really very annoying, constantly nagging me about their “newest stickers” and other crap. When I open it, it’s like times square on my phone with all the garbage ads…
I have a few friends and family on Signal. Pretty much everyone uses other services too (including myself) but Signal is installed on a few
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I talk to some friends / family on Signal exclusively. They either already cared about it, or they’re close enough that they trust my recommendation / still don’t care but want to put in the effort
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I talk to some friends / family on Signal only when we want to have a more private conversation
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Some people won’t ever be convinced, I talk to them on other services or in person when privacy is important. I set up boundaries to protect myself, and people usually respect that.
This way I protect myself while respecting other people’s choices.
For you I’d recommend focussing on the second option. When you need to talk privately, ask the person to install it and give a short explanation for why it’s better. If they do, then great it’s installed and it’ll get used once in a while. Maybe they will see other people and build up the network. If they don’t install it, then suggest an alternative like talking in person
I tell everyone that messenger is not installed on my phone and I check messages once a week. So if they contact me there, expect a one week response time. (Or more.)
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I got no one to switch. Eventually I just gave up as people were getting sick of me always recommending alternatives no one else uses.
“I don’t have anything to hide”
I prefer to suggest a different mindset - “It’s not that I have nothing to hide. It’s that I have nothing I want anybody to see”
It still incredibly hard tog et even one person to agree tho. And even then they’d likely give up since most of our contacts are going to keep using WA
Definitely. Now I just occasionally mention that I have and use more privacy friendly alternatives as a sort of “fyi” for them to know. It’s better for the other parties to want to switch out of their own desires than to be forced. If it is forced upon them and things don’t go smoothly, you’ll end up getting resentment or worse, blamed. Better to use subtle encouragement and if they decide to switch, offer lots of useful advice and assistance.
Either they’re okay with a switch and it’s easy or they are not open for that and it’s impossible to change their mind.
Pretty much nobody I know wants to switch to Signal or any other messaging app. So it’s SMS communication with them because I definitely won’t install WhatsApp.
Why everybody is talking about signal? Isnt a matrix also a good alternative? It requires no phone number + has almost the same feature set. For chatting with family and friend it scales enough good. It is fully open source.
personally, signal is a lot easier to set up for a family member who doesnt care about privacy. its just a sms replacement basically, just need a phone number (which is also a downside, of course)
In Matrix all u need is username, email and password and ur ready to go. Homeserver is configured automatically to matrix.org (which is a problem, but nvm)
The downside of matrix is complexity of choosing a client though. And in general understanding a concept of matrix is not easy for regilar person.
For example u can say: “Im on Signal”, but u cant say: “im on FluffyChat”, or Element whatever, it sounds wrong, cuz these are only the clients and everything is working on matrix. But the regular person needs an object: telegram, signal, whatsapp - these all are just single entities. On the other hand u have matrix with clients, homeservers, spaces and all of this complexity, and that is not easy to understand.
Yeah, i hope in future this problem will be resolved.
I’ve started using Matrix instead of Discord (not that I really ever used Discord).
Why are so many people comparing discord with matrix instead of revolt
In my case, I’ve seen a lot of Discord groups linked with Matrix. As well as it being mentioned a whole bunch online
It’s a slow change, honestly. Just do what you can with your own services.
It’s unfortunate but at least it’s moving.
Signal is not much better than WhatsApp or any other walled garden messenger without provider choice. Don’t waste your time and energy to move people to walled gardens. A better idea would be to use providers and apps that support the federated internet standard XMPP: https://joinjabber.org
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Which encryption protocol is labeled with a warning? The link I posted makes choosing a client very easy.
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Yes, the XSF has a very high bar what a standard is and what not, so the many protocol extensions are labeled experimental. However that doesn’t mean implementations are “incomplete” or “insecure”. OMEMO has good support nowadays and the implementation in Conversations has been independently audited.
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How regularly should I check if Signal has become an interoperable internet standard?
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Just start using Signal. Don’t push it for a reason for people who don’t care, just let people know “Hey, message me here”. The more people that use it - the better for everyone - whether they benefit or not.
The second part of that is use things like WhatsApp less or not at all, but you can always start with the first part. Maybe you already have folks on signal, and you can just start messaging them there until more folks come over.
