I’ll start.

For Guinan: I loved that her character was that classic trope of the “bartender / therapist” who was always around, but never got too involved in the main plot. She would give casual advice, but wasn’t officially an “advisor”, so it served the show well for the main characters to share what they were thinking.

For Quark: He was unquestionably the better developed character, with his own wants and desires that frequently intertwined with the main plot. He also served as a sort of foil to the values of the federation, which let the viewers see how greed was incompatible with the best interests of the people.

I love both. Which was your favorite? Which approach did you like better for the “bartender” character?

  • MdRuckus @lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    It’s apples to oranges. They served two totally different roles. If you’ve seen Picard you understand she played a much move pivotal role in time and events than Quark. He was a great character, but didn’t hold the power to change life altering events like Guinan. Personally, I like Quark’s character better though.

    • Nmyownworld@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Apples to oranges was my first thought. Guinan is good at listening, helping to sort out someone’s thoughts, and if needed saying that there is a path for someone to follow. Quark is about that profit, and when he gives advice it is direct, not subtle. Sometimes accompanied by an insult. I think both are good characters, but Quark is definitely more well-rounded and developed. Over time, little is learned about the El-Aurians from Guinan. A lot is learned about the Ferengi from Quark.

    • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I still need to see Picard. I honestly have only watched TOS, TNG, and DS9 a billion times for some reason, and I have a lot of catching up to do.

          • Captain_Ender@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I’m the same, but. holy. fuck.

            Season 1 is bearable, and has some neat things like The Borg 2.0 and go a little deeper into Data’s story. But season 2 is absolute fucking garbage. I tired for months to get through it and finally quit on the last 2 episodes. Holy fuck it’s honestly one of the worst seasons of any TV show ever not just Trek. I’m not gonna lie it kinda ruined the ironic character I grew up watching a little for several months.

            So yeah if you don’t want that, skip to 3. Finally went back to see it, they must have fired the whole writing staff because it’s so much better. Still not amazing but they basically salvaged the best characters in the franchise.

            • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              That’s so disappointing, but at least I know going into it now.

              I feel like a key interview question for a writer/director/etc should be “are you a fan of star trek?” Like, there are a ton of hardcore trek fans out there. Sure some of them are writers and can do the characters justice.

              • Captain_Ender@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                The ego of some showeruners thinking they know best and no one gets them can be staggering. Combine that with negligent execs who only see an IP’s $$$ and you get a hellbrew of no one questioning anyone.

        • Acamon@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I watched the first episode and noped out of it, but I was tempted to skip first season. Do you think starting with season three would work? I’m not particuarly completionist, and I’m sure I can fill in the blanks…

          • lxskllr@mastodon.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            @Acamon @BaroqueInMind

            No problem starting with s03. There’s very little continuity between seasons, and the parts that call back to earlier seasons are fleeting and non crucial. Each season can be watched out of order, but within seasons, they need to be watched serially.

            FTR, I liked the whole series, but I’d have trouble recommending s01-02 generally.

  • TotalElipse@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I think it’s a pretty open and shut case for Quark. I love Guinan, but Quark is just a much more developed and interesting character for me.

  • aedyr@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yeah I mean it’s gotta be Quark and it’s not close. He also became the de-facto representative of life outside the Federation & Starfleet, which was one of the things DS9 really leaned in to.

  • Mountaintwig@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    I enjoy the more humourous tone that Quark gives the show; so my vote goes for Quark!

    However, if I were to live on a Starship or a Deep Space station, I would probably visit Guinans bar more often than Quarks…

    • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      1 year ago

      Scenes in Ten Forward always feel so cozy, and nobody would be trying to rip you off. Lol

      That’s where I’d personally want to hang out too.

        • orbitz@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Lower Decks has a couple on a date in the lounge when a Red Alert goes off, it’s a pretty good bit as they continue their date. Though don’t think it’s called ten forward on that ship.

      • samus12345@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        But Ten Forward is on a Starfleet vessel, and therefor far more exclusionary. Anyone can take a shuttle to Quark’s.

        • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Now that I think of it, I do really like that aspect of Quark’s bar as a story tool. Since they were located on a station, anyone who’s just passing through could be sitting at the bar.

    • rightonyourtail
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      I think the vibe was better in Guinans bar. Who wants carpeting in their drinking hole?!

    • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      His stories really helped humanize (gotta be a better for for that) the Ferengi. Like, yes they were cartoonishly greedy little jerks, but they also have individuality within their culture.

      • Tom Riley@mas.to
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        @war @Datas_Cat_Spot actually, what is the word for that? When a species treats a human as less than human (or vice versa)? I was saying the other day that in Chain of Command, the Cardassian captor “dehumanises” Picard, but that’s not right, is it? I mean, that’s what humans would call it, but what would be a cross-species term for it?

  • Derek Caelin 🌱@social.coop
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    1 year ago

    @Datas_Cat_Spot
    Who was “better utilized” is a hard question in my view, but I think it’s clear that Quark was a more fully developed character.

    Guinan appeared seldom but always gave insight to characters when they most needed it. She was enigmatic, and cool, but not very fleshed out.

    Quark was more realized as a character - more complex, more highs and lows, more emotions. I didn’t like him much, but he was more “interesting” to watch.

    • Thorry84@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      You’ve hit on a good point there, Guinan always felt to me like a deus ex machina in the stories. It feels like when the writers don’t know how to resolve something, they just have a character go to Guinan and resolve whatever it is they were struggling with.

      It also feels like they really didn’t know what to do with the character. Whoopie’s availability didn’t help with that, since she had only a very limited shooting time. Sometimes they made it seem like Picard and her go way back, but then she didn’t play any significant role as far as we know. And there were plenty of times where they would have been far apart for super long. They also want to make her an enigma, not really knowing her age or limits, with vague hints to her father and Q exclaiming she has powers. But nothing ever comes of this. And if Picard and her go way back, surely he would know about some of this stuff? But he never does it seems like.

      Her whole back story is full of holes and the character makes no sense. But that’s common with Star Trek characters.

      It feels like throwaway lines that get tossed around to make the character feel more than it is, but it’s completely hollow and ultimately comes to nothing.

      It’s a shame, because I like the idea of Guinan, but story wise the character simply wasn’t very good and not utilized very well.

  • atlasraven31@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Neelix was Voyager’s unofficial bartender, spreading cheer to Tuvok and helping Tom Paris hit Warp 10!

    Please don’t ban me.

  • jaredwhite@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    1 year ago

    I love the character of Quark, but let’s be honest. Guinan is the better bartender, if you’re just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.

    • JWBananas@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Guinan is the better bartender, if you’re just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.

      Nonsense, she also has green!

      Besides, I couldn’t see Quark making a Tzartak aperitif.

    • samus12345@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hmm, I think it depends on what you’re looking for in a bartender. If you want someone chatty Quark would be the better choice.

  • Razputinsgirth@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    I mean idk quarks is basically a half step away from a brothel and while I love the character he’s a lil shit and greedy ad. My vote is 10 forward

    • Data's Cat Spot@startrek.websiteOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ten Forward is just a relaxing environment. There are a few people who have uploaded ambient/atmospheric trek videos on youtube (usually something like “10 hours of the TNG warp core room”). There’s a Ten Forward one I’ve put on in the background quite a few times.