The comparison in a recent New Yorker article was viewed as controversial in Germany, where government authorities strongly support Israel as a form of remorse and responsibility after Adolf Hitler’s Germany murdered up to 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.
Gessen, who was born Jewish in the Soviet Union, is critical of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.
In Gessen’s article, titled “In the Shadow of the Holocaust,” the author explores German Holocaust memory, arguing that Germany today stifles free and open debate on Israel.
Gessen also is critical of Israel’s relationship with Palestinians, writing that Gaza is “like a Jewish ghetto in an Eastern European country occupied by Nazi Germany.”
“The ghetto is being liquidated,” the article added.
(Here’s a non-paywall link to the article.) It is profound.
German here. It’s weird, isn’t it? Israel did not exist when Hitler had the power and millions of Jews were killed. On the other hand, a Russian Jew would have been a prime target for the Nazis. Strange that the German government still feels like it has to be more supportive of the state Israel than of Jews themselves.
I never got that as well. ARD and ZDF do the same. See the latest ZDF Magazin Royale. It starts to denounce everyone who uses the current situation to disguise their antisemitism, yet ends up in a weird tone where everyone who isn’t for Israel (because German history) is antisemitic, at least a little bit, right?
Really fucking weird. How do we have to support Israel doing some effed up shit because our forefathers worse shit to their forefathers?! I don’t get it. And how am I antisemitic when I am against what that nation does? I mean, I love my Mom, but if she started to indiscriminately kill civilians, I’d be pretty opposed to that.
I am not a fucking antisemite, I don’t care about any religion or ethnicity in the slightest. Judaism is not part of this. All I care about is if you murder civilians or not. If you do, we can’t be friends. Simple as that.
If they weren’t Jewish, the whole thing would’ve probably just been scrapped.
Saying the same thing, but with a less negative connotation, I think it’s important that a Jewish man is the one making this comparison and pushing others to reevaluate their blind tribalism on the matter. Jews have been killed, displaced, and persecuted by Muslims long before the rise of Hitlers Reich, but answering barbarism with more barbarism only ensures future barbarism.
Everyone deserves peace, freedom and safety. No one deserves the right to take peace, freedom or safety away from others, but humans do horrible things with power. We are not so different from our distant ancestors, and we still havent come close to rising above our nature..
Genuine Q: isn’t saying this should have come from a Jewish person a form of tribalism itself?
I’m of the opinion that critical thinking (like this piece) can be achieved by any person from any background, and we all should be engaging with the ideas that come up (and their merit, or lack thereof) rather than anything else if we’re interested in moving forward in a way that is equitable for all
IMO It seems a dangerous thing to be gatekeeping ideas from certain groups of people
Yes, anyone can have this opinion, and many people do, I’m just saying it might carry more weight coming from a Jew, and land better with other Jews and people aligned with them. None of that is gate keeping, and I’m pretty sure you’re a troll and don’t even know it.
I don’t believe they were promoting gatekeeping ideas. We’re allowed to think as we choose. But many have said similar things here (maybe not nearly as eloquently, but still …) and it hasn’t made a difference. Biden continues to fully support Israel and the killing hasn’t stopped.
The ideas had to written by a Jewish person, someone who knows in their DNA what it’s like to live as a Jew, to be treated as less-than far too often, to know family who were murdered, and to have realized the promise of a real home after a 2000 year diaspora.
So, your second paragraph is interesting because I/my family have lived that experience; as an autistic person and as someone whose grandfather fled their country as a refugee due to a communist uprising
Autistic people were actually the very first group of people to be holocausted by the nazis, several years before Jewish people
Does that give me more right or credibility to share these ideas? should it?
I don’t think it’s made a difference in this case either, if we’re comparing it to other individuals who have made this point and the effects on foreign policy
Okay, let’s re-evaluate:
She is directly comparing an active armed conflict in which several thousands died as collateral damage so far with the organised and industrialised hunt for and mass murder of millions of civilians.
So her trivialisation of the holocaust is either insane or criminal. Evaluation done.
Now it’s your turn: Please reevaluate why a Jew saying stuff that gets you rightlfully prosecuted for holocaust denial in Germany should a) be allowed to freely express that bullshit and b) be the reason instead to think about some kind of our tribalism. (Holocaust victims -despite the fact that people like to make it about Jews exclusively- weren’t any kind of tribe btw…)
Judaism is not Israel. Israel does not represent all Jewish people. Calling out genocide of Palestinian civilians is just.
Calling Israeli intentional murder of civilians collateral damage shows you are not arguing in good faith.
Calling Israeli intentional murder of civilians collateral damage shows you are not arguing in good faith.
So Israel was not attacked with more than thousand civilians killed? Israel is not getting attacked right now (and every single day in the last months) by rockets fired from Gaza? And they most certainly have not right to do anything about it because that would be a genocide and an intentional killing of civilians for no actual reason. And there is no active fighting, just Israel’s military lazily driving through Gaza and killing civilians?
Is that your actual argument? Because then I indeed prefer not to argue with you in good faith or at all, as you are obviously insane and have lost contact with reality.
Fun fact:
Judaism is not Israel.
I know. And I didn’t mention Isreal at all, did I? I talked about the holocaust and how comparing it to this (or any) armed conflict is belittling the scale and organised/industrialised effort at not only killing Jews but actually anyone deemed undesirable, including for moral and political reasons, and is an insult to the actual millions of victims of the holocaust. But for some magical reason being an Jew makes that idiotic comparison more normalised, when the opposite should be the case.
That is not my argument.
That is you repeating the bullshit talking points of a corrupt and racist Israeli government whose prime minister will likely face jail time for corruption if he ever gives up power.
Yes, most active armed conflicts are fought with a total disregard for human life by denying civilians food, water, power, and medical care, this is a totally conventional war and not at all a slaughter of people based on identity. You are so heckin valid.
It’s sad that you are trying to be sarcastic when actually describing exactly any armed conflict and war in history.
Gessen is nonbinary (they/them) fwiw. I just learned this from Wikipedia.
Noted.
I bet the German bureaucrats did this as a compromise that saves the faces of both sides. I don’t say it’s the right thing to do, but it’s a typical big ass bureaucracy.
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