"“If President Trump committed a heinous act worthy of disqualification, he should be disqualified for the sake of protecting our hallowed democratic system, regardless of whether citizens may wish to vote for him in Colorado,”

  • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    has been interpreted

    By whom? Has it been tested?

    Where are you getting the “hard and fast” descriptor when ‘natural born’ is not defined in the statute.

    • sugar_in_your_tea
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      11 months ago

      My second link (the Guardian) makes the claim, and my third link (Harvard Law Review, linked by the Guardian) provides one such piece of evidence to back that claim.

      Almost nothing is “hard and fast” in law, especially where politics is involved, but given that we’ve had three high profile cases in the last 15 years and no serious Supreme Court-level challenge, I’m going to consider the “question” as mere political posturing.

        • sugar_in_your_tea
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          11 months ago

          Yes, the “natural born citizen” clause in a hard requirement in the Constitution, how that’s interpreted does have some room for debate. It seems you’re intentionally misunderstanding what I’m saying…

          • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            It seems you’re intentionally misunderstanding

            It seems you’re saying diametrically contradictory things.

            You say things are absolutely hard and when soft edges are pointed out you then say “nothing is hard”.

              • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                It’s the same thing:

                if “natural born” is a hard requirement despite never being defined or tested.

                You said it was a hard requirement, I pointed to evidence of the rules being murky unclear and in many ways arbitrary to which you responded that nothing was hard.

                On having that contradiction pointed out you now claim to be arguing two to more things.

                • sugar_in_your_tea
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                  11 months ago

                  To be more clear, here’s the relevant text of the Constitution:

                  No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

                  That is the set of hard and fast requirements to hold the office of President.

                  The definition of natural born citizen is somewhat debated, but the general consensus is that it includes:

                  • those born on US soil
                  • those who have birthright citizenship, such as through a parent

                  There are more links there to show the general consensus. But since it hasn’t been tried in higher courts, the definition isn’t “hard and fast,” but the requirement to be a natural born citizen absolutely is. Those are the two different things, the requirement is hard and fast, and the specific definition of the requirement isn’t, and probably won’t be even if it is tried in higher courts because there’s always going to be some exception to whatever definition is provided.

                  It’s like saying murder being against the law is a hard and fast rule, but the specific definition of murder could be subject to debate (i.e. one person’s self-defense could be considered murder, and vice versa). The definition can have some flux while the law that uses those terms can be strict.