It’s a two party system. You vote Biden or get Trump. Trump has less problem with ethnic cleansing. If fact Trump is the kind that might try it in the US.
He already has plans for it, and using the military to do it. He has made it clear he plans to go full fascist right from day one if he were to win again. It’s his only way to not spend the rest of his life in prison (and he loves the idea of being a dictator).
That’s true but Biden winning accomplishes the same. No this isn’t a both sides argument, it’s understanding that many outside nations have invested in dividing our nation politically. The only win would be a 3rd party win and that won’t happen in my lifetime.
That is a both sides argument. Trump is a new level of bad. If you want to have any chance of a future with a better political system, you want to keep Trump out. If you don’t vote Biden, you can’t complain if you get Trump.
See if you still feel like if he gets in and does things like taking measures to stay in longer than another single term, withdraw from NATO and the UN.
Logically, yes, unless you come up with another option that realistically results in a better outcome. Nobody’s asking you to be happy about the shitty state of affairs.
I hope your rhetoric doesn’t perpetuate the cycle of America lesser eviling it to Ultra Mega Hitler as POTUS.
Edit: To clarify, Trump is currently strangled by litigation diet coke button and removing a bike rack harmless loudmouth capable not Hitler with 60 percent of a country ready to fight him status.
Biden however has made the Democrat base support genocide.
Be certainly be good of Republicans come back from the edge. If the players are more balanced, the system can start to be adjusted to get away from being just Red vs Blue.
Well it’d have to be suitably public, but a suicide of a street vendor helped kick off the Arab Spring. Mohamed Bouazizi achieved a lot.
Besides that, if every vote I cast is a vote for genocide, then don’t I deserve to die? Have you listened to the interviews? Have you seen the bodies in the rubble? I’d rather kill myself than support that, and if everything I do supports genocide then I should kill myself. I deserve it.
But you’re not voting for Genocide. Noone is giving you that option. Your vote or lack thereof has no effect on whether the US supports Israel’s Genocide of the PalestiniN people.
If you want to oppose the genocide, join a march. Put up posters
You literally are voting for genocide. You are telling the US government “yes, more of this please”
You could withhold your vote to put pressure on Biden’s administration. You won’t do that. Biden sees every blue-no-matter-who voter as a guaranteed vote and a reason to not change his policies in any way. They’ve literally said as much! They have said they aren’t worried about elections because Republicans are worse. This is what you’ve created, you voted for it.
You don’t have the options you want to have. I’m sorry, but you don’t. We have to deal with the world as it is to have any chance to make it as we want it.
So you’re saying in order to participate in the US electoral system you must make yourself responsible for some level of genocide? Contrary to lesser evil voters, you’re not responsible for other peoples votes, but you are responsible for yours. The fact that about 4 gerrymandered states determine the election is not my fault and doesn’t necessitate my participation in condoning any more genocide than I legally have to when I pay taxes.
In the broken systems we both have, all you can do is tactically vote based on the outcomes you want the least. While arguing for better voting systems.
And how does that translate into a two party voting system? One is multiple times worse than other. What can you do so neither ends up president? Nothing. You only choice is to choose the least bad.
Then the democratic party should make the most basic effort to condemn genocide. I wont vote for the support of genocide. It’s really not a high bar. It’s frankly pathetic that you are suggesting we have accept that. That makes you explicitly in support of the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the people of Palestine. You are evil.
You are evil and acting in bad faith. It’s hard to imagine how you think wanting a president who will condemn genocide means supporting trump. You don’t, you want to continue the dishonest dialog that the only discourse is we must accept the democratic party as is or else. What it is a threat and acting in bad faith.
In the US no vote is a republican vote. I know you don’t like to hear it but its the way it is. The fewer people that vote the higher their chances go up.
No offense, but I really hope you are young and that’s the reason you are this naive. The next president is going to be either a democrat or a republican. Denying that reality so you can feel better about yourself is doing the people of Gaza no favors. You have no power of the situation and especially if you are in a swing state, the only thing you can do to help them is to keep the republicans out of the white house.
I actually understand your thought process, I used to be the same way. I wish third parties were viable too and I wish we had better options, but right now, the best chance you personally can give Gaza is voting Democrat.
Well as it stands, the average American can’t do much at all. But the republicans absolutely love Israel and Israel is going to get even more support from the US if the republicans control our government.
Plenty of them are. But you’re willing to toss them all out with a figurehead. The AICP is currently campaigning against several Democrats for calling out the genocide .Yeah Biden’s out of touch and a bit problematic. But this is the height of self-defeating virtue signaling. Not that it has stopped a lot of you in the past. San timoniously and hypocritically criticizing everyone else while doing nothing to make the situation actually better. Soothing your own conscience with trying to convince yourself that you’re meaningless gesture was worth it.
Biden is what we are saddled with and it could be far worse. You need to take care of business this election cycle and the moment it’s over start pushing better people for 2028 or sooner.
That’s what people said last election. We always have to push them to be better the next election. Always settle for worse. What a shit electoral system the US has. And the hilarious part is that unless that person you’re talking to lives in a swing state their vote probably doesn’t matter anyway.
Very nice, you have made genocide into nothing more than virtue signaling. You are gross, your arguments are gross and it is your continued support to the establish us political system and parties that gave us trump to begin with.
One of those two will be president no matter what you do. They will then be in a position capable of inflicting great damage. Trump will use that position to hurt more people than Biden. The math here isn’t complicated, and it continually astounds me how many people on the left cannot actually solve the trolly problem when faced with it for real. It really shows which people are engaged in politics as a means to an end rather than as personal expression or a hobby.
I don’t support anyone. I oppose the worst outcome, and seek to steer our course away from it. Only narcissists and hobbyists hyperventilate about who they are “supporting”.
I engage in politics as a means to an end and nothing more. I take the best option available and I move on to the next task. To do otherwise is to value the self above the collective, and as a communist that is not a luxury I’m afforded.
Nobody is going to make you vote one way or another, but please recognize the following:
The United States is currently a two party system. It sucks. We need to push for more ranked choice voting, as well as direct popular vote.
However, until we’re able to achieve something that makes this parties viable, we will continue to have issues with the right wing getting undue influence in our politics.
Vote with your heart, but make sure that you’re okay with another Trump presidency of you decide not to vote for Biden.
Keep in mind as you do so that more than one state had enough votes for Jill Stein that if they had gone to Hillary, Trump never would have become president.
We should have viable parties outside of the two not great to horrible parties we have now. But that’s simply not the way our government works as it stands now.
Last thing: you’ve become a single issue voter. This is the lefty equivalent of only caring about abortion and ignoring literally everything else. Politics is complicated, and I personally find single issue voters incredibly shortsighted and lazy.
He is actively exploiting Bush era “emergency powers” that were never rolled back after 9/11 to sell artillery to Israel.
He is fascist too.
This is what happens when you let soft brained morons convince you that supporting lesser evil is mandatory. You support evil and both sides continually get worse.
Refusing to vote for Evil, any Evil, is a pretty straightforward moral position to take.
Meanwhile your voting choice requires complex mental gymnastics to justify, which is quite an indication that you’re trying to come up with excuses for yourself for doing what you do not feel is the morally right thing to do.
We are there.
I will vote for Joe Biden if he publicly condemns Israel. From his lips. In an address to the nation.
I will not if he doesn’t.
Simple as that.
It’s a two party system. You vote Biden or get Trump. Trump has less problem with ethnic cleansing. If fact Trump is the kind that might try it in the US.
He already has plans for it, and using the military to do it. He has made it clear he plans to go full fascist right from day one if he were to win again. It’s his only way to not spend the rest of his life in prison (and he loves the idea of being a dictator).
I think if he tries that, the US breaks down as there is no way everyone will go with it.
Trump winning is a win for the enemies of the US and a win for the enemies of the wider free world.
Edit: Add a few words for clarity.
Removed by mod
I wasn’t planning on voting for trump, but when you put it that way…
OK ok, I’ve edited to be more explicit. Though I’m sure everyone knew the interpretation I meant…
That’s true but Biden winning accomplishes the same. No this isn’t a both sides argument, it’s understanding that many outside nations have invested in dividing our nation politically. The only win would be a 3rd party win and that won’t happen in my lifetime.
That is a both sides argument. Trump is a new level of bad. If you want to have any chance of a future with a better political system, you want to keep Trump out. If you don’t vote Biden, you can’t complain if you get Trump.
Trump is only a “new level of bad” to liberals that weren’t paying attention before.
See if you still feel like if he gets in and does things like taking measures to stay in longer than another single term, withdraw from NATO and the UN.
Do you promise?
So Biden is allowed to do whatever he wants, we are obligated to vote for him, as long as he’s just a tiny bit less bad than trump would be?
Logically, yes, unless you come up with another option that realistically results in a better outcome. Nobody’s asking you to be happy about the shitty state of affairs.
That’s why the system has to change. Trump will change the system, but not the way you want at all.
Removed by mod
Ya, Independent, Green, Libertarian, Constitution.
Those parties don’t exist.
The genocidal fascist whose boots you’re licking told you so.
Well good luck with that. I hope you guys don’t vote in Trump again, for all our sake.
Well, good luck with that.
I hope your rhetoric doesn’t perpetuate the cycle of America lesser eviling it to Ultra Mega Hitler as POTUS.
Edit: To clarify, Trump is currently strangled by litigation diet coke button and removing a bike rack harmless loudmouth capable not Hitler with 60 percent of a country ready to fight him status.
Biden however has made the Democrat base support genocide.
Trump isn’t winning the Republican primary.
Be certainly be good of Republicans come back from the edge. If the players are more balanced, the system can start to be adjusted to get away from being just Red vs Blue.
What’s the point of living if I have to vote for genocide?
You think Trump is less pro-genocide? Until you can change the system, you end up choosing who you think is less genocidy.
Edit: spelling
You misunderstand.
If my only choices are to vote for “genocide” and “more genocide”, why shouldn’t I cast a 9mm ballot into the roof of my mouth?
What does that achieve?
Well it’d have to be suitably public, but a suicide of a street vendor helped kick off the Arab Spring. Mohamed Bouazizi achieved a lot.
Besides that, if every vote I cast is a vote for genocide, then don’t I deserve to die? Have you listened to the interviews? Have you seen the bodies in the rubble? I’d rather kill myself than support that, and if everything I do supports genocide then I should kill myself. I deserve it.
But you’re not voting for Genocide. Noone is giving you that option. Your vote or lack thereof has no effect on whether the US supports Israel’s Genocide of the PalestiniN people. If you want to oppose the genocide, join a march. Put up posters
You literally are voting for genocide. You are telling the US government “yes, more of this please”
You could withhold your vote to put pressure on Biden’s administration. You won’t do that. Biden sees every blue-no-matter-who voter as a guaranteed vote and a reason to not change his policies in any way. They’ve literally said as much! They have said they aren’t worried about elections because Republicans are worse. This is what you’ve created, you voted for it.
No, it is you don’t understand. You have a “Trolley problem”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
You don’t have the options you want to have. I’m sorry, but you don’t. We have to deal with the world as it is to have any chance to make it as we want it.
So you’re saying in order to participate in the US electoral system you must make yourself responsible for some level of genocide? Contrary to lesser evil voters, you’re not responsible for other peoples votes, but you are responsible for yours. The fact that about 4 gerrymandered states determine the election is not my fault and doesn’t necessitate my participation in condoning any more genocide than I legally have to when I pay taxes.
In the broken systems we both have, all you can do is tactically vote based on the outcomes you want the least. While arguing for better voting systems.
If I throw myself under the trolley wheels I might derail it. Happened in Tunisia.
And how does that translate into a two party voting system? One is multiple times worse than other. What can you do so neither ends up president? Nothing. You only choice is to choose the least bad.
I referenced Tunisia because a man committing suicide literally changed their government.
If the only choice is “genocide lite” and “genocide deluxe” then the system must be destroyed.
If my only choice is to vote for genocide then I want to die.
Idiotic reason to vote for Trump who is far worse toward Palestine.
Then the democratic party should make the most basic effort to condemn genocide. I wont vote for the support of genocide. It’s really not a high bar. It’s frankly pathetic that you are suggesting we have accept that. That makes you explicitly in support of the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the people of Palestine. You are evil.
I’m evil? Strong language for someone suggesting Trump is a worse alternative than Biden.
You are evil and acting in bad faith. It’s hard to imagine how you think wanting a president who will condemn genocide means supporting trump. You don’t, you want to continue the dishonest dialog that the only discourse is we must accept the democratic party as is or else. What it is a threat and acting in bad faith.
In the US no vote is a republican vote. I know you don’t like to hear it but its the way it is. The fewer people that vote the higher their chances go up.
Then the democratic party should make the most minimal effort to win by standing against genocide.
No offense, but I really hope you are young and that’s the reason you are this naive. The next president is going to be either a democrat or a republican. Denying that reality so you can feel better about yourself is doing the people of Gaza no favors. You have no power of the situation and especially if you are in a swing state, the only thing you can do to help them is to keep the republicans out of the white house.
I actually understand your thought process, I used to be the same way. I wish third parties were viable too and I wish we had better options, but right now, the best chance you personally can give Gaza is voting Democrat.
Removed by mod
Well as it stands, the average American can’t do much at all. But the republicans absolutely love Israel and Israel is going to get even more support from the US if the republicans control our government.
Removed by mod
Plenty of them are. But you’re willing to toss them all out with a figurehead. The AICP is currently campaigning against several Democrats for calling out the genocide .Yeah Biden’s out of touch and a bit problematic. But this is the height of self-defeating virtue signaling. Not that it has stopped a lot of you in the past. San timoniously and hypocritically criticizing everyone else while doing nothing to make the situation actually better. Soothing your own conscience with trying to convince yourself that you’re meaningless gesture was worth it.
Biden is what we are saddled with and it could be far worse. You need to take care of business this election cycle and the moment it’s over start pushing better people for 2028 or sooner.
That’s what people said last election. We always have to push them to be better the next election. Always settle for worse. What a shit electoral system the US has. And the hilarious part is that unless that person you’re talking to lives in a swing state their vote probably doesn’t matter anyway.
What if I hate America? Who should I vote for? 🤔
Very nice, you have made genocide into nothing more than virtue signaling. You are gross, your arguments are gross and it is your continued support to the establish us political system and parties that gave us trump to begin with.
Keep on virtue, signaling. And whatever you do don’t do anything that might actually help.
It’s very telling that you can’t address any of the points I made. Acting offended is all you’ve got.
You are offensive.
You are performing outrage poorly.
Oh my, you got me.
Stop doing that you insufferable pea-brained dolt.
Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean I’m voting for Trump.
Idiots like you sit there like your vote is a party popper you MUST use to show if your streamers and confetti are blue or red.
I am disgusted with the options I am presented with. I get no streamers or confetti…
Unless Biden condemns the Israeli genocide of Palestine and champions imposing massive embargoes on Israel while fully ceasing any funding in full.
Then I might believe he (and the DNC) are humbling WAY the fuck up, listening to their constituents, and correcting course is the SMALLEST of ways.
I vote for anyone but Biden, or even a no vote, is a vote for Trump.
If you think Palestine is in bad shape under Biden, try to imagine how much worse it’d be with Trump.
The only way to get Democrat candidates on the left is to crush the right wing so that the Overton window moves.
First they think of not voting. That’s one vote for Trump.
Then they decide to vote for Trump. That’s two votes for Trump!
By this logic, every dollar you don’t donate to Biden is a dollar donated to Trump.
You are the uncle Tom piece of shit that has lead this country here.
I do not vote for Biden. I do not vote for Trump.
You can’t make me.
Your rhetoric is outdated, idiotic, and counter-productive.
One of those two will be president no matter what you do. They will then be in a position capable of inflicting great damage. Trump will use that position to hurt more people than Biden. The math here isn’t complicated, and it continually astounds me how many people on the left cannot actually solve the trolly problem when faced with it for real. It really shows which people are engaged in politics as a means to an end rather than as personal expression or a hobby.
Dont. Support. Genocidal. Fascists.
I don’t support anyone. I oppose the worst outcome, and seek to steer our course away from it. Only narcissists and hobbyists hyperventilate about who they are “supporting”.
I engage in politics as a means to an end and nothing more. I take the best option available and I move on to the next task. To do otherwise is to value the self above the collective, and as a communist that is not a luxury I’m afforded.
Nobody is going to make you vote one way or another, but please recognize the following:
The United States is currently a two party system. It sucks. We need to push for more ranked choice voting, as well as direct popular vote.
However, until we’re able to achieve something that makes this parties viable, we will continue to have issues with the right wing getting undue influence in our politics.
Vote with your heart, but make sure that you’re okay with another Trump presidency of you decide not to vote for Biden.
Keep in mind as you do so that more than one state had enough votes for Jill Stein that if they had gone to Hillary, Trump never would have become president.
We should have viable parties outside of the two not great to horrible parties we have now. But that’s simply not the way our government works as it stands now.
Last thing: you’ve become a single issue voter. This is the lefty equivalent of only caring about abortion and ignoring literally everything else. Politics is complicated, and I personally find single issue voters incredibly shortsighted and lazy.
Considering… considering… nope, wont support genocide.
Instead youll sit idle by as fascism takes over. You are no less responsible if you dont vote.
Biden. Is. Funding. Genocide.
He is actively exploiting Bush era “emergency powers” that were never rolled back after 9/11 to sell artillery to Israel.
He is fascist too.
This is what happens when you let soft brained morons convince you that supporting lesser evil is mandatory. You support evil and both sides continually get worse.
Removed by mod
I ask you, if there is one party that tries you stop you from voting in any way they can, doesn’t you not voting play into their hand?
Just stop supporting genocide; this isn’t hard.
Refusing to vote for Evil, any Evil, is a pretty straightforward moral position to take.
Meanwhile your voting choice requires complex mental gymnastics to justify, which is quite an indication that you’re trying to come up with excuses for yourself for doing what you do not feel is the morally right thing to do.
I don’t think any presidential candidate would do that, even if that’s how they really felt. It’d be political suicide.
You don’t think any candidate would condemn genocide. Condemning genocide as a US presidential candidate is suicide…
Isn’t that how fucked America is in a nutshell.
I don’t believe you would at all tbh.
Just another concern troll pretend you give a fuck.
You think having a Republican president is going to improve the situation?
If I were in Nazi Germany and my choices were Hitler, a genocidal maniac or Himmler, a genocidal maniac, I would not vote for a genocidal maniac.