If there’s an argument that’s going to sway me, it’s the historical comparisons. I need to read more about how similar situations have ended in the past, even if a direct comparison probably isn’t fully accurate.
I’m absolutely interested in a path to peace; I just don’t see one right now. I don’t think putting 100% of the burden of peace on Israel is reasonable or possible. Hamas still has over a hundred hostages (assuming they’re still alive).
I don’t think putting 100% of the burden of peace on Israel is reasonable or possible.
Israel is the one who singlehandedly built the current status quo, going as far as to fund Hamas and support them against the PNA.
Hamas still has over a hundred hostages (assuming they’re still alive).
Because hostages are one of the few ways Hamas can get concessions (including Palestinian political prisoners) out of Israel. If Hamas doesn’t have hostages Israel simply won’t stop.
why would anyone ever implement that hare brained scheme? most people that I’ve talked to just want an alternative to bombing the shit out of gaza and killing 21,000 people and like 8,000 kids or whatever, they’re not saying israel should immediately just like, dissolve, and all israelis should be left to die and shit. They probably wouldn’t even let themselves be killed, without a fight, you’d see something more like an impromtu military junta state crop up and increasing radicalization form among it and then on both sides, and you’d just get a repeat of what’s currently happening but probably worse. I don’t think that would ever reasonably happen, even, this is a dumb bullshit hypothetical. Even the people who want the dissolution of israel want it over the course of multiple years, or decades, even, where some jewish guy from staten island that doesn’t even speak hebrew goes back home, and everything just kind of goes back to what might be considered “normal”. The logical follow through of “I dislike it when a bunch of people are getting massacred” isn’t “well now I guess we can’t do anything at all, they can just march in and kill everyone and that’s it. woops. look at what you made us do!”. Most people recognize this, and just want the violence to stop as fast as possible, which is why nobody’s really talking about the long term plans for what might happen after this. They’re too focused on the horrible shit happening right now to propose anything.
That’s because israel are killing all of the women, children, israeli hostages, and israeli soldiers, they aren’t worried about Hamas fighters just quite yet.
I mean yes, October 7th targeted military targets first and foremost. Even if you blame all casualties on Hamas (which is very much wrong; Israel shelled their own citizens during the attack) you’re looking at a military casualty ratio of 33%.
“The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip in 121 randomly selected locations.” So 72% of only 1231 people is an accurate representation for the opinion of over 5.4 million people?
And 72% of Palestinians believe the October 7th attack was “correct”.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
Don’t treat people worse than literal cattle for decades and they won’t hate you.
Okay, say Israel tomorrow turns the other cheek. They take down all checkpoints and allow free travel anywhere for anyone.
How many Israelis die before the Palestinians decide they no longer “deserve” to die? Does Israel still exist in five years?
This same argument has been made throughout history.
“If we let Black people have freedom they’ll murder all of the white plantation owners!”
Now, I wouldn’t blame formerly enslaved people for murdering the people who enslaved them, but that didn’t happen.
Aparthide in South Africa was ended without the promised (by white people) “white genocide” either.
Settler-colonial powers always think that the people they’re oppressing will commit genocide, because it’s what colonizers do.
The only road to true peace is full human rights for all.
If there’s an argument that’s going to sway me, it’s the historical comparisons. I need to read more about how similar situations have ended in the past, even if a direct comparison probably isn’t fully accurate.
I’m absolutely interested in a path to peace; I just don’t see one right now. I don’t think putting 100% of the burden of peace on Israel is reasonable or possible. Hamas still has over a hundred hostages (assuming they’re still alive).
Israel is the one who singlehandedly built the current status quo, going as far as to fund Hamas and support them against the PNA.
Because hostages are one of the few ways Hamas can get concessions (including Palestinian political prisoners) out of Israel. If Hamas doesn’t have hostages Israel simply won’t stop.
why would anyone ever implement that hare brained scheme? most people that I’ve talked to just want an alternative to bombing the shit out of gaza and killing 21,000 people and like 8,000 kids or whatever, they’re not saying israel should immediately just like, dissolve, and all israelis should be left to die and shit. They probably wouldn’t even let themselves be killed, without a fight, you’d see something more like an impromtu military junta state crop up and increasing radicalization form among it and then on both sides, and you’d just get a repeat of what’s currently happening but probably worse. I don’t think that would ever reasonably happen, even, this is a dumb bullshit hypothetical. Even the people who want the dissolution of israel want it over the course of multiple years, or decades, even, where some jewish guy from staten island that doesn’t even speak hebrew goes back home, and everything just kind of goes back to what might be considered “normal”. The logical follow through of “I dislike it when a bunch of people are getting massacred” isn’t “well now I guess we can’t do anything at all, they can just march in and kill everyone and that’s it. woops. look at what you made us do!”. Most people recognize this, and just want the violence to stop as fast as possible, which is why nobody’s really talking about the long term plans for what might happen after this. They’re too focused on the horrible shit happening right now to propose anything.
That’s because israel are killing all of the women, children, israeli hostages, and israeli soldiers, they aren’t worried about Hamas fighters just quite yet.
I mean yes, October 7th targeted military targets first and foremost. Even if you blame all casualties on Hamas (which is very much wrong; Israel shelled their own citizens during the attack) you’re looking at a military casualty ratio of 33%.
“The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip in 121 randomly selected locations.” So 72% of only 1231 people is an accurate representation for the opinion of over 5.4 million people?
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963
How do you think polling works? If you had to “ask everyone” to have data, we wouldn’t have any…