Yeah it’s hard to disagree with this. While I don’t think that the US or Canada can do much to influence the situation politically, neither should they be providing support militarily.
Bro the US used their veto in the UN to prevent the demand for a ceasefire passing. Literally only USA and Israel voted against. The US is the most powerful country in the world for now, you’d be hard pressed to find an arena of politics they DONT have immense power over. Certainly they have power over the genocides their allies do.
Palestine’s torpedoed all the previous attempts at peace, haven’t they? Can’t fault israel from considering this is just another attempt at a respite so more rockets and tunnels can be built and more foreign support can be gathered.
EDIT: I’ve taken a deeper look and found I don’t know enough about this to have an informed opinion.
what exactly are you talking about? Palestine ratified the Oslo accords even when Israel refused to, until the Camp David talks that literally demanded Palestine being a Soviet style Client state and Israel to control all water.
I mean Netanyahu literally supported Hamas to be able to ignore the PA push for a two-state solution because it interfered with the Theocratic ethnostate plan.
Hmm, I feel like the US are why Israel can do as it pleases. If it weren’t for the US backup the chances of a new war on Israel by several of it’s neighbors backed by Iran would be very plausible. I don’t wish for this to happen, it would be horrible, and I understand that the US should perhaps back Israel to a certain degree. But in return they can ask a lot from Israel, and if Israel doesn’t even comply with not committing terrible war crimes, then the US could threaten them with not having their backs anymore.
What I’m trying to say is: I think you underestimate the role the US can play.
1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to wield power in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
If Iran won a war against Israel at least some of the more extreme in Iran want extermination. You could potentially be trading an incredibly one-sided war with a possible second Holocaust. Many of the most extreme political factions in surrounding countries want Israel wiped off the map and replaced with a Muslim theocracy. If you destabilize the area you’re risking worse than is currently happening.
I don’t think that means the USA should be giving Israel a blank check, but I’m also not a foreign policy expert and I suspect the diplomatic situation is far more complex than you and I can comprehend sitting comfortably on our couch. Especially since holding Israel accountable is also not as popular domestically as it seems in online communities like this one. So any diplomatic pressure has to be behind closed doors.
Israel is already doing a genocide. I’d rather the genociders get hurt than innocents. Though there is zero reason to think Iran would actually genocide anyone. Like, that whole idea is very much a bridge we will cross when we come to it.
Words matter, war and genocide are 2 different things. I know it’s in vogue to call it genocide right now, but killing 0.4% of a population is not remotely genocide. It’s certainly a one sided retaliatory war that is grotesque and shouldn’t be happening. But if Isreal fails there is a chance millions of Jews die, again, we’re talking 22,000 vs millions. I suspect that is the impossible situation foreign policy analysts have to weigh when deciding what to do next.
They are very different, and if this was just a war I wouldn’t care. Israel is the aggressor in this, the idea that this has to do with the defense of Israel is a vicious lie intended to justify genocide. Theoretical people do not matter compared to real people. The foreign policy decision for anybody that isnt genocidalis trivially easy: stop doing a genocide.
Let’s say an extremist faction of Mexico, that had power and was integrated into the government came north and captured 240 people and killed another 1200. How do you think the US would respond? Would many in this country or other countries call our inevitable outsized retaliation genocide? If you don’t say no you’re a liar. One has to recognize the geopolitical lense people view Israel from and the desperate need for some to propagandize Israel as genocidal. That doesn’t make it true, and neither does desperately repeating it as often as possible. If anything it weakens your argument because it makes you seem like a clown to any serious person.
The Likud in Israel needs Hamas as much as Hamas needs the Likud. They both derive all of their power from a protracted conflict. There is no incentive to culturally and ethnically destroy the Palestinian people, because the day that happens is the day the Likud cease to exist. Netanyahu has shown over his political career that opportunism and power are his only driving forces, not cultural homogeneity and genocide. If you’re going to make an argument that it’s genocide you need to back it with coherent thought beyond, “but innocent people are dying”. If that’s your metric then all wars are genocide and the word looses all meaning.
What Israel is doing is awful, but it’s not genocide.
All wars are not genocide, but this one clearly is. Israel directly controls the number of calories going into gaza, with the goal of starvation. They have blown up every single hospital in Gaza, and prevent them leaving Gaza for treatment. They refer to them as beasts, and openly stated they want to kill every single one of them. THAT ain’t no regular ass war.
I would certainly call your example genocide, assuming America went about it the usual way. Netanyahu wants Palestine to be Israel, nothing all that complicated.
One does not in any way have to recognize the geopolitical lens people view Israel through. There are lenses that present it as a genocidal state, and there are lies. It’s a classic “Id agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong”.
Where that lens starts to matter is in our reaction to Americans who are not enlightened. Certainly merely repeating the propaganda you heard on the news doesn’t make you pro genocide, but we still have to demand Americans think critically about it. Because the fact is, it IS a genocide, and as Americans we bear significant fault for it collectively.
Most of America supports Palestine. You only think that because the media loves to use it as a scapegoat. And regardless, who said anything about America? All we have to do is sit down and shut up. Iran can easily handle the Israel situation itself. If America joined in it would be purely for capitalist’s opportunism.
Yeah it’s hard to disagree with this. While I don’t think that the US or Canada can do much to influence the situation politically, neither should they be providing support militarily.
Bro the US used their veto in the UN to prevent the demand for a ceasefire passing. Literally only USA and Israel voted against. The US is the most powerful country in the world for now, you’d be hard pressed to find an arena of politics they DONT have immense power over. Certainly they have power over the genocides their allies do.
Palestine’s torpedoed all the previous attempts at peace, haven’t they? Can’t fault israel from considering this is just another attempt at a respite so more rockets and tunnels can be built and more foreign support can be gathered.
EDIT: I’ve taken a deeper look and found I don’t know enough about this to have an informed opinion.
what exactly are you talking about? Palestine ratified the Oslo accords even when Israel refused to, until the Camp David talks that literally demanded Palestine being a Soviet style Client state and Israel to control all water.
I mean Netanyahu literally supported Hamas to be able to ignore the PA push for a two-state solution because it interfered with the Theocratic ethnostate plan.
I’ve looked in deeper and found I wasn’t correct in assigning blame for the peacekeeping deal going under. Thanks for the reply.
Hmm, I feel like the US are why Israel can do as it pleases. If it weren’t for the US backup the chances of a new war on Israel by several of it’s neighbors backed by Iran would be very plausible. I don’t wish for this to happen, it would be horrible, and I understand that the US should perhaps back Israel to a certain degree. But in return they can ask a lot from Israel, and if Israel doesn’t even comply with not committing terrible war crimes, then the US could threaten them with not having their backs anymore.
What I’m trying to say is: I think you underestimate the role the US can play.
1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to wield power in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
Why would it be horrible for Iran to go to war with Israel? It wasn’t horrible when Russia, UK and USA went to war with Germany. Same situation.
If Iran won a war against Israel at least some of the more extreme in Iran want extermination. You could potentially be trading an incredibly one-sided war with a possible second Holocaust. Many of the most extreme political factions in surrounding countries want Israel wiped off the map and replaced with a Muslim theocracy. If you destabilize the area you’re risking worse than is currently happening.
I don’t think that means the USA should be giving Israel a blank check, but I’m also not a foreign policy expert and I suspect the diplomatic situation is far more complex than you and I can comprehend sitting comfortably on our couch. Especially since holding Israel accountable is also not as popular domestically as it seems in online communities like this one. So any diplomatic pressure has to be behind closed doors.
Israel is already doing a genocide. I’d rather the genociders get hurt than innocents. Though there is zero reason to think Iran would actually genocide anyone. Like, that whole idea is very much a bridge we will cross when we come to it.
Words matter, war and genocide are 2 different things. I know it’s in vogue to call it genocide right now, but killing 0.4% of a population is not remotely genocide. It’s certainly a one sided retaliatory war that is grotesque and shouldn’t be happening. But if Isreal fails there is a chance millions of Jews die, again, we’re talking 22,000 vs millions. I suspect that is the impossible situation foreign policy analysts have to weigh when deciding what to do next.
They are very different, and if this was just a war I wouldn’t care. Israel is the aggressor in this, the idea that this has to do with the defense of Israel is a vicious lie intended to justify genocide. Theoretical people do not matter compared to real people. The foreign policy decision for anybody that isnt genocidalis trivially easy: stop doing a genocide.
Let’s say an extremist faction of Mexico, that had power and was integrated into the government came north and captured 240 people and killed another 1200. How do you think the US would respond? Would many in this country or other countries call our inevitable outsized retaliation genocide? If you don’t say no you’re a liar. One has to recognize the geopolitical lense people view Israel from and the desperate need for some to propagandize Israel as genocidal. That doesn’t make it true, and neither does desperately repeating it as often as possible. If anything it weakens your argument because it makes you seem like a clown to any serious person.
The Likud in Israel needs Hamas as much as Hamas needs the Likud. They both derive all of their power from a protracted conflict. There is no incentive to culturally and ethnically destroy the Palestinian people, because the day that happens is the day the Likud cease to exist. Netanyahu has shown over his political career that opportunism and power are his only driving forces, not cultural homogeneity and genocide. If you’re going to make an argument that it’s genocide you need to back it with coherent thought beyond, “but innocent people are dying”. If that’s your metric then all wars are genocide and the word looses all meaning.
What Israel is doing is awful, but it’s not genocide.
All wars are not genocide, but this one clearly is. Israel directly controls the number of calories going into gaza, with the goal of starvation. They have blown up every single hospital in Gaza, and prevent them leaving Gaza for treatment. They refer to them as beasts, and openly stated they want to kill every single one of them. THAT ain’t no regular ass war.
I would certainly call your example genocide, assuming America went about it the usual way. Netanyahu wants Palestine to be Israel, nothing all that complicated.
One does not in any way have to recognize the geopolitical lens people view Israel through. There are lenses that present it as a genocidal state, and there are lies. It’s a classic “Id agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong”.
Where that lens starts to matter is in our reaction to Americans who are not enlightened. Certainly merely repeating the propaganda you heard on the news doesn’t make you pro genocide, but we still have to demand Americans think critically about it. Because the fact is, it IS a genocide, and as Americans we bear significant fault for it collectively.
My fear is that the people fighting against Israel are too brown for America to support.
Most of America supports Palestine. You only think that because the media loves to use it as a scapegoat. And regardless, who said anything about America? All we have to do is sit down and shut up. Iran can easily handle the Israel situation itself. If America joined in it would be purely for capitalist’s opportunism.
providing military support is influencing the situation politically