I disagree. Creating a legitimate marketplace creates room for regulations and law enforcement and kills black markets.
Human traffickers get a lot easier to catch if the trafficked can turn their traffickers in without fear of being arrested themselves for the things they were forced to do.
You’re arguing against the science on this issue, it’s a well established fact that countries that have legalized prostitution in the past have notably larger human trafficking inflows. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986065
Human Trafficking is never above board. That’s the whole point, the illegally kidnapping and forcing into sex slavery part increases. Which is the entire problem. The Human Traffickers don’t start reporting the number of lives they’ve ruined out of good conscience, if that’s what you thought?
I have not read that and don’t intend to at present, so let’s give you that argument.
I’d propose a simple reason for this. I would imagine a lot of the inflow is from other countries where prostitution is still illegal. Traffickers move them to legal countries, possibly even legal brothels, and coerce the person to stay quiet. Johns don’t have any reason to suspect, because it’s legal, so it may provide safety to the traffickers, in a hiding in plain site way.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, or if the article addresses this in some way. I’ll read it a bit later.
I think maybe the fact that the frequency of people being kidnapped, shipped to another country, and forced into sex work against their will increasing as a direct and clear correlation of the decriminalization still stands regardless of the policies of the countries of origin. More avoidable harm comes from decriminalizing, and we don’t have a very clear solution yet other than the slow modernization of the whole world.
Sure, there’s a validity in it regardless of anything else, but the mechanism is important. If it’s not a clear causal relationship, if it’s instead just correlative, then it doesn’t make any sense to base policy decisions on it, though. Murder rates go up at the same time ice cream sales do, but we’re not banning ice cream.
It’s the same argument with drug dealers. Legalizing drugs will just let them operate in the open! Or, it’ll kill an industry that only exists because it’s illegal, and as soon as you open the legality up, people can operate more independently and with more protection.
Bit of a stretch to compare the selling of the use of live human bodies for sexual gratification to the use of a plant. Mainly because we don’t require the plant’s consent.
You’re saying that kidnapping and forcing people and children into sex labor against their will is something you WANT legalized, akin to selling hash? That’s a pretty fucking wack take on this.
It’s not about the crimes, it’s about the criminals. They all work the same. If the illegal industry they’re operating in becomes legal, suddenly they lose a lot of their leverage. They’re no longer the only supplier in town. Their buyers are no longer operating in the dark. This takes a TON of power from them.
Actually, you wouldn’t lose clientele at all. Because it’s no longer illegal to promote your business or use your services. So you can sell sex on the frontend and you can still perform much more illegal coercion and slavery on the backend.
And if a little girl is eventually found out by the authorities? Push the blame onto the person who brought her in. Push the blame onto the people who shipped her. Push the blame onto the people who kidnapped her. Suddenly it’s a decade long legal battle with extraditions involved and no evidence of wrongdoing by your legitimate business, because the girl provided fake documentation and signed all the proper forms.
Jeffrey Epstein was doing Human Trafficking illegally for over 30 years before prosecutors came after him, imagine if his business was technically legal. He would be completely untouchable.
I don’t think anything Epstein did would be considered legal with prostitution being legalized. Underage prostitution would still absolutely be a crime, and human trafficking would still be a crime, both of which I’m pretty sure were the bigger issues with what was going on with him.
You also keep saying little girl. If there are little girls involved, it’s a problem regardless of the legality of prostitution. I don’t think anyone ever has made the argument that THAT Should be legal. Unless you’re saying this will happen with more little girls if it was legalized in which case… I mean, we already had Epstein. Legality didn’t do shit for those girls.
If there are little girls involved, it’s a problem regardless of the legality of prostitution.
Legality didn’t do shit for those girls.
YES! THATS MY POINT. YOU CAME THIS CLOSE TO GETTING IT. Unfortunately, legalizing sex work leads to more Human Trafficking in those countries that have tried it. If we can create a solution for that then idgaf and we can legalize it, but until then my vote is no.
And you came this far from getting mine, at least with how you quoted my post. The point was, when I said “legalized didn’t do anything” that it was still illegal where he was, and it still happened. I suppose I should have said illegality didn’t do anything for them.
As I said in another post, even giving that sex trafficking increases in countries that have legal prostitution, what’s the WHY? Is it only because it’s legal there now? Or is there a deeper thing going on?
Legalization didn’t kill any underground industry and it most certainly allowed them to operate in the open. I know because I haven’t changed where I buy from and they haven’t gotten any licenses.
Then they’re offering something else, or you’re going for a reason other than logic. If there are other suppliers offering the same thing for the same price, with no difference in product or experience, you must be going to the same supplier for another reason. Easier, closer, friendlier more trustworthy, whatever.
These are all valid reasons to keep going to an old supplier, but when the legal shit starts providing the same or better experience, more and more people go away from the illegal sources. As that happens, illegal sources start to lose profit and no longer remain viable, they reduce in number.
Licensing by the state entity is extremely rare for most professions, usually a licensing organization is made up from individuals participating in the industry based on wealth or political experience. What might actually fix it is constant auditing and oversight which, again, is extremely rare, and even then people would fall through the cracks just like with child protective services failing to find signs of abuse.
I think legitimizing Sex Work just creates an opportunity for human traffickers to operate in broad daylight, sadly.
I disagree. Creating a legitimate marketplace creates room for regulations and law enforcement and kills black markets.
Human traffickers get a lot easier to catch if the trafficked can turn their traffickers in without fear of being arrested themselves for the things they were forced to do.
You’re arguing against the science on this issue, it’s a well established fact that countries that have legalized prostitution in the past have notably larger human trafficking inflows. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986065
Wouldn’t that be because they can actually measure their inflow since all of it is above board?
Human Trafficking is never above board. That’s the whole point, the illegally kidnapping and forcing into sex slavery part increases. Which is the entire problem. The Human Traffickers don’t start reporting the number of lives they’ve ruined out of good conscience, if that’s what you thought?
I have not read that and don’t intend to at present, so let’s give you that argument.
I’d propose a simple reason for this. I would imagine a lot of the inflow is from other countries where prostitution is still illegal. Traffickers move them to legal countries, possibly even legal brothels, and coerce the person to stay quiet. Johns don’t have any reason to suspect, because it’s legal, so it may provide safety to the traffickers, in a hiding in plain site way.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, or if the article addresses this in some way. I’ll read it a bit later.
I think maybe the fact that the frequency of people being kidnapped, shipped to another country, and forced into sex work against their will increasing as a direct and clear correlation of the decriminalization still stands regardless of the policies of the countries of origin. More avoidable harm comes from decriminalizing, and we don’t have a very clear solution yet other than the slow modernization of the whole world.
Sure, there’s a validity in it regardless of anything else, but the mechanism is important. If it’s not a clear causal relationship, if it’s instead just correlative, then it doesn’t make any sense to base policy decisions on it, though. Murder rates go up at the same time ice cream sales do, but we’re not banning ice cream.
It’s the same argument with drug dealers. Legalizing drugs will just let them operate in the open! Or, it’ll kill an industry that only exists because it’s illegal, and as soon as you open the legality up, people can operate more independently and with more protection.
Bit of a stretch to compare the selling of the use of live human bodies for sexual gratification to the use of a plant. Mainly because we don’t require the plant’s consent.
You’re saying that kidnapping and forcing people and children into sex labor against their will is something you WANT legalized, akin to selling hash? That’s a pretty fucking wack take on this.
It’s not about the crimes, it’s about the criminals. They all work the same. If the illegal industry they’re operating in becomes legal, suddenly they lose a lot of their leverage. They’re no longer the only supplier in town. Their buyers are no longer operating in the dark. This takes a TON of power from them.
Actually, you wouldn’t lose clientele at all. Because it’s no longer illegal to promote your business or use your services. So you can sell sex on the frontend and you can still perform much more illegal coercion and slavery on the backend.
And if a little girl is eventually found out by the authorities? Push the blame onto the person who brought her in. Push the blame onto the people who shipped her. Push the blame onto the people who kidnapped her. Suddenly it’s a decade long legal battle with extraditions involved and no evidence of wrongdoing by your legitimate business, because the girl provided fake documentation and signed all the proper forms.
Jeffrey Epstein was doing Human Trafficking illegally for over 30 years before prosecutors came after him, imagine if his business was technically legal. He would be completely untouchable.
I don’t think anything Epstein did would be considered legal with prostitution being legalized. Underage prostitution would still absolutely be a crime, and human trafficking would still be a crime, both of which I’m pretty sure were the bigger issues with what was going on with him.
You also keep saying little girl. If there are little girls involved, it’s a problem regardless of the legality of prostitution. I don’t think anyone ever has made the argument that THAT Should be legal. Unless you’re saying this will happen with more little girls if it was legalized in which case… I mean, we already had Epstein. Legality didn’t do shit for those girls.
YES! THATS MY POINT. YOU CAME THIS CLOSE TO GETTING IT. Unfortunately, legalizing sex work leads to more Human Trafficking in those countries that have tried it. If we can create a solution for that then idgaf and we can legalize it, but until then my vote is no.
And you came this far from getting mine, at least with how you quoted my post. The point was, when I said “legalized didn’t do anything” that it was still illegal where he was, and it still happened. I suppose I should have said illegality didn’t do anything for them.
As I said in another post, even giving that sex trafficking increases in countries that have legal prostitution, what’s the WHY? Is it only because it’s legal there now? Or is there a deeper thing going on?
Legalization didn’t kill any underground industry and it most certainly allowed them to operate in the open. I know because I haven’t changed where I buy from and they haven’t gotten any licenses.
Then they’re offering something else, or you’re going for a reason other than logic. If there are other suppliers offering the same thing for the same price, with no difference in product or experience, you must be going to the same supplier for another reason. Easier, closer, friendlier more trustworthy, whatever.
These are all valid reasons to keep going to an old supplier, but when the legal shit starts providing the same or better experience, more and more people go away from the illegal sources. As that happens, illegal sources start to lose profit and no longer remain viable, they reduce in number.
Licensing fixes that
Licensing by the state entity is extremely rare for most professions, usually a licensing organization is made up from individuals participating in the industry based on wealth or political experience. What might actually fix it is constant auditing and oversight which, again, is extremely rare, and even then people would fall through the cracks just like with child protective services failing to find signs of abuse.