Churches campaigning for Trump? Take away their tax-exempt status.
Non Paywalled Link: https://ghostarchive.org/archive/x2zrw
Remember, if you see or hear a church actively campaigning for any sort of politics you can report them and get their tax free status taken away. 👍
That’s the brilliant thing about the making politics about cultural issues. Churches can campaign for culture shit all day long. They just can’t say “vote for _____.”
But Trump has made clear he won’t punish churches that violate the Johnson amendment in 2024, even vowing on a Christian nationalist broadcast last May that he’ll abolish the prohibition if reelected.
But that’s exactly what they’re doing.
Even when they do, and I have sent in photo of a local church with “Trump 2020” on their placard, nothing at all happens to them.
They aren’t even contacted as far as I can tell.
Maybe cc a news organization or three on the email to the IRS next time and they can do some follow-up reporting on it?
Failing that, there ought to be some way a lawsuit could get filed that could force the IRS to do their job, though that’d be an expensive and time consuming thing
I mean, it’s supposed to work that way but that’s extremely rare.
If enough get reported, especially since now it’s been vocalized and reported. They’re going to be forced to do something about it. I acknowledge it is wishful thinking, though, but don’t give up. Report these fucks either way.
Doing something about it has a non-zero chance of success.
Doing nothing about it has a guaranteed chance of failure.
Can I report a church I don’t attend, just so they become paranoid about who snitched?
Yup, as long as they’re campaigning for Trump or campaigning for political figures in general, have at it.
Someone with some cyberintelligence background could have a lot of fun setting their software to search for social media posts from pastors/churches looking for explicit political messaging.
Maybe talk to the local news about it.
Record it happening so you have evidence to back it up. Get it onto social media so everyone can help report it, too!
Nothing at all will happen. I doubt you can find a single “legitimate” (with a real congregation & actual employees) church that has had their tax free status challenged, let alone removed in the last 30 years.
Branch Ministries in New York had it done in 92 after taking out a full page political ad in the newspaper.
I didn’t know that was a thing that could happen
I’ve got to do some research because my grandparents church has been doing this since Bush Sr.
Not a single church ever has had their tax status taken away for politics. It doesn’t happen
It happened in 92, but that’s the only publicly known instance.
Lol that’ll be the day. Has that ever happened? Ever?
Has that ever happened?
So your answer is to do nothing and be apathetic?
I’ve reported a church, with photo evidence from multiple angles. Literally nothing happened.
That law has never been enforced against a “legitimate” church.
We totally believe you random internet stranger. Totally.
Edit:
that law was never enforced against a “legitimate” church.
A quick Google search shows you’re full of shit.
It’s more pointing out how the suggested action is bullshit. It’s like if you had a leaking roof and someone said to blow soap bubbles on it. And then when you point out that’s a nonsensical solution that has no chance of working, they reply “oH, so YoU juSt waNT to Do NotHinG anD bE apaThEtic?”
Pointing out that someones suggestion is a non-solution is not an endorsement of doing nothing. It’s pointing out that the suggestion is not helpful and distracts from actual solutions.
Pretending the IRS would actually go after a church is ignoring the reality of the situation. I don’t want suggestions that would only work in some deluded made up fantasy world.
It takes little effort. You’re saying to not do it, while also not suggesting anything to do. Your suggestion has an even lower chance of success than the OP, so if anyone shouldn’t be listened to it’s you.
Collect evidence and submit it. Also work on getting better elected officials, unionizing, protesting, and whatever else you can do. If your suggestion is to stop doing something and not replacing it with something more effective then you should just keep your mouth shut.
How about we throw a bunch of birthday candles in the nearest lake?
And remember, you can’t tell me that’s stupid and unproductive because by your logic, that would clearly mean you are advocating for doing nothing.
Are you starting to see how nonsense your argument is?
No, their logic is that we should pursue the thing with the highest chance of success regardless of whether that chance is very good or not. Reporting to the IRS might only have a 1% chance of success, but that’s better than nothing’s 0% and birthday candles in a lake’s 0.00001% chance.
It doesn’t have a 1% chance, it has essentially a 0% chance. The IRS has NEVER gone after an established church, and they never will because of the massive can of worms it would open. While astronomically speaking, nothing is impossible, there comes a point where something is so improbable that attempting it is wasted effort. In this instance, it distracts from people coming up with actual solutions because they’re led to believe that the false solution is worth pursuing.
I listed several other things people should also be doing. However, the IRS thing does have some amount of utility even if it does nothing at the moment. The IRS doesn’t have enough employees (on purpose) to look into everything, but if they get enough complaints and enough evidence they may. It at least creates a paper trail of they try anything bigger.
Then, by all means, what do you suggest since you obviously know more?
Jump on one foot and whistle.
What’s that? You don’t think that will do anything and it’s an unhelpful suggestion?
Unfortunately you just established that you can’t criticize dumb ideas unless you offer a working alternative, so I guess we’ll all just have to stupidly go along with my jump-on-one-foot-and-whistle strategy until then.
/s
Again, you provide nothing of substance other than your apathetic bitchy attitude. Provide an alternative if not shut the fuck up because you provide nothing to the conversation.
Unfortunately you just established that you can’t criticize dumb ideas unless you offer a working alternative, so I guess we’ll all just have to stupidly go along with my jump-on-one-foot-and-whistle strategy until then. /s
Lol, playing the world’s smallest violin for ya, champ. You love to dish it but can’t take it.
How many ways do I have to say it? I don’t need to know or provide an alternative to be able to recognize the current suggestion as bad. How tf are you not grasping this?
Let me try ANOTHER metaphor. Let’s say someone asked us both what the square root of 294,797 was without using a calculator. I say “I don’t know” and you say “I think it’s 4”. I don’t have to know the correct answer to know that your answer is wrong. And it doesn’t magically become worth considering just because it’s the only answer that was given. It’s still wrong.
you can report them and get their tax free status taken away
And remember, that report will go nowhere and you’ll accomplish nothing! The IRS has never gone after a church for this. Never. Reporting them is just as effective as quietly whispering “please tax them” into your pillow at night.
I wish people would recognize the failures in our system and stop suggesting others do shit that doesn’t actually work.
Then what do you suggest? You obviously have better ideas? Or do you prefer to just bitch about things and not try to make a change?
I also wish people would stop saying there’s no hope so do nothing.
No, record them and send it to the IRS. If nothing happens then fine. Nothing was lost. Along with that work towards change. Telling people the system is broken so do nothing is not going to get you the change you want.
This is what you get when you consistently don’t crack down on churches abusing their tax-exempt status starting a decade (or longer) ago.
I thought the rules were changed to allow this? I don’t remember the specifics but I remember being irritated that we were allowing them to keep their tax exempt status but also allowing them to get involved in politics…
Fine, as long as they have their tax exempt status removed.
They won’t, because the politicians they elect will defend their base of support.
This isn’t like when Obama/Pelosi went after ACORN in 2009. Or SCOTUS struck down the right of unions to fund raise for candidates under the Janis decision. Or FOX News spent months freaking out over the Ground Zero Mosque. Or Midwestern governors tried to cancel Sunday early voting in order to undermine “Souls to the Polls” black Evangelical turnout. These are people with real money and influence who aren’t to be fucked with.
Conservatives will tap that reserve whole heartedly. Liberals will just shrug and say they can’t be taxed because of The Norms.
Absolutely remove the tax exemption if they are trying to get political
Just remove the exemption no matter what at this point
Christofacists are the fucking worst
I hate Illinois nazis
Yes, violate your 501c status. We’re watching and ready to report you.
Effectively 1/3 of the US is Nones (and growing). I don’t have the breakdown in front of me, but a sizeable number are “switchers,” people who left their childhood religion.
I’m personally now an ex-fundigelical antitheist, so I would relish the opportunity to report them!
I’m a currently exvangelical Christian and I would also relish the opportunity to report them.
Imagine what would happen if a bunch of people “came back to the flock” only to report churches for violations. Imagine how paranoid they’d all be. It’d be hilarious.
If I hadn’t come from an actual cult, I’d have considered this as a real tactic!
Literally nothing happens when you do.
Why are you going out of your way to be apathetic? This entire thread you’re going about trying to stop people from doing something that hurts nobody, but the very people that want to fuck our country up. You’re assisting them with that attitude and behavior of yours.
Someone commented a while ago that “Nationalist Christians” is a better name for these groups because it conveniently reduces to an easy to remember abbreviation: NatC’s
I really think we should push that.
Cnat isn’t a hard to remember abbreviation, though.
Say NatC out loud. You may find it sounds a lot like another term that applies to Christian Nationalists.
Ah, I see now
If anyone finds any especially with video evidence I am more than happy to take a minute to report the shits to the IRS.
Also keep in mind that there’s often a reward for turning in tax fraud. Not that should motivate you.
Didn’t know that and don’t care about it when it comes to this.
This makes me want to go back to church. Just a little though.
Why? The IRS never does shit about it. Churches get away with this shit daily
Do the churches get reported? Because I doubt the people going to them are doing it.
If we all do nothing then nothing CAN happen. We have to do SOMETHING for something to even have a possibility of happening.
Or…
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
I don’t get it, if I went to a church and they even mentioned a political candidate I’d never return. That’s probably why I’m an atheist now.
Enforce the Johnson amendment
It’s not like the IRS would do anything about it.
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Ah yes, a false prophet parade. You’d think Christians would do something about that.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
It’s a brazen effort to transform religious congregations — which are technically supposed to keep electoral politics out of the pulpit — into a campaign powerhouse for the former president.
He spent much of the recent holiday weekend attempting to trash the legacy of a storied Christian reverend, Martin Luther King, Jr.)
The law is rarely enforced, and has been skirted by churches of all political orientations — whether by pastors who make their personal endorsements public or by congregations organizing turnout-boosting efforts like “souls to the polls.”
But Trump has made clear he won’t punish churches that violate the Johnson amendment in 2024, even vowing on a Christian nationalist broadcast last May that he’ll abolish the prohibition if reelected.
During his podcast, Wallnau insisted that the Courage Tour will also be working with right-wing women’s groups including Moms for America — which touts “truth, family, freedom and the Constitution” — and Concerned Women for America, a group dedicated to “Biblical values and Constitutional principles.” Wallnau insisted: “We’re creating a broad net.”
The movement poses a danger to democracy because it “sees no room for compromise,” Andrew Whitehead, author of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States has told Rolling Stone.
The original article contains 1,120 words, the summary contains 205 words. Saved 82%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
religious congregations — which are technically supposed to keep electoral politics out of the pulpit
Why would large, well-organized, ideologically unified groups of people stay out of electoral politics?
Aren’t these exactly the kinds of organizations you’d expect to be hip deep in political organizing and activism?
The movement poses a danger to democracy
I have to say that I think their views are often shit. But they are fundamentally popular shit. Hardly antidemocratic.
Liberals would do well to fight fire with fire. Attend big social groups. Organize with your neighbors. Raise money, run candidates, and enforce ideological orthodoxy as a condition of membership.
Hoping that some rules lawyers at the IRS are going to make Houston’s Second Baptist Church go away seems both foolish and unproductive.
