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- cross-posted to:
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“Twenty-five percent [of people consider] natural gas to be renewable, in this millennial and gen Z bucket,” an unidentified PERC board member said. “There’s a perception out there—not reality, but that’s perception. We can attach to that for propane.”
“You can’t say natural gas is renewable,” PERC board member Leslie Woodward cautioned.
“Perception,” the unidentified board member repeated.
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Propane isn’t a fossil fuel, it’s a byproduct of fossil fuel processing/refinement, and understanding this matters. You can’t mine or harvest propane like coal or petroleum because propane is not a fossil fuel. It’s a byproduct. Once we stop using fossil fuels, propane will go away.
Propane has an extremely low GWP (global warming potential) compared to other refrigerants. Anyone who has a refrigerator, freezer, air conditioner, or heat pump, is using refrigerants. The most common refrigerants are R-22 (chlorodifluoromethane) with a GWP of 1810 (1810 times worse than CO2) and R-410a with an approximate, difficult-to-calculate GWP of 2088. There’s also R-32 (difluoromethane) with a 100-year GWP of 675. Depending on who you ask, propane has a 20-year GWP of 0.072 and a 100-year GWP of 0.02, or a GWP of 3. In any case, that’s WAY lower than what we’re already using.
Probably the most ineffective way to attack fossil fuels is by attacking propane, while the most effective way to attack fossil fuels is to build wind and solar to make fossil fuels irrelevant. My rooftop solar produces over 200% of our usage, for example. That’s a lot of coal my neighbors aren’t indirectly burning.
We should very aggressively build wind, solar, and other renewables to replace fossil fuels. Until then, in the reality that we’re living in, it would be harmful and kind of useless to attack propane.
BTW, do you want people burning more charcoal in their backyards? Because that’s what they’ll do if you snap your magic fingers and eliminate propane, and the fossil fuel industry will either put their fossil fuel byproducts into something else anyway or just release it into the atmosphere where it does its climate change damage. So you get the choice between: A) the current climate damage or B) the current climate damage and more.
But I agree it’s embarrassing that people think so-called “natural gas” is renewable. That’s almost surely in part because it has “natural” in the name, and that’s why I support just calling it by its real name, which is methane.
How expensive was your solar setup for over 2x your usage? I want solar but not on my roof since I feel like that will complicate things with my roofs 50 year warranty. Got a huge yard next to farm land so no trees from east to west either.
My rooftop solar is actually fairly typical, it’s just that we’ve been very aggressively reducing electricity usage since the solar was installed. Home heating is the biggest user of electricity here, and so we’ve reduced winter air temperature in the house to about 54-60F (about 12-15.5C), while using the techniques in the book Heating People, not Spaces by Kris De Decker, author of Low-Tech Magazine, and other techniques as well. Just as an example, instead of heating the house overly hot all day and watching TV after dinner, we’ll keep the house cool, use an electric mattress pad on the pull-out couch, and snuggle while watching TV. This not only uses almost no electricity, but it’s also more fun.
We also haven’t used our clothes dryer a single time in 4 years now, using the clothesline instead, despite living in a cold place (USDA Zone 5). We look ahead on the 10-day forecast to anticipate best times and it works out fine. In a few days we’ll do 3 loads of laundry, 1 each 3 days in a row. The savings aren’t just the ~1kWh from each dryer load. Next time you do a load of laundry, go outside and put your hand by the dryer vent and feel all that indoor air being vented outside for up to an hour. Now imagine the same volume of cold winter air equalizing air pressure in the house by slipping through gaps in the doors. That’s a LOT of cold air that is then reheated (typically using fossil methane, or electricity largely created by burning fossil fuels). It’s the same story in summer: the dryer pulls in all that hot air that makes people use more AC or electric fans.
We’ve been doing extensive solar cooking for a few years now, typically cooking at least one thing about 6 days a week for 8 months of the year. Curry, bread, banana bread, corn bread, muffins, apple pie, sweet corn on the cob, veggies, pizza, pasta, leftovers, many many dishes. That keeps a ton of cooking heat out of the house while using no electricity, while also being the safest and most ethical cooking method (caveat: parabolic solar cookers are not safe, I’ve never used them and don’t recommend them. They’re pretty cool but should be treated with extreme caution, just as with a fresnel lens.)
These are just a couple changes we’ve made; there are dozens. Just to name one more, reducing our indoor shower/sink usage is worth mentioning, as it takes significant energy to heat water. Using a showerhead that uses 50% less water, and taking a 50% shorter shower on top, saves a ton of hot-water energy. Same for efficient sink aerators.
Some upcoming projects/plans:
- get a heat pump with mini splits
- work on passive solar heating, even though our house is poorly situated for it
- figure out how to safely pull enough snow off the solar panels after a snowstorm, possibly using a telescoping handle and squeegee
- improve shading for summer (we don’t use AC, but still…)
- get a heat pump based water heater
If you want to get started saving money and carbon, I’d suggest lowering your winter house temp by one degree. Once you’ve adjusted and kinda forgotten about the change, lower it again by one degree. Keep doing this over a period of time and do it slowly so you can stick with it, making it a change that lasts the rest of your life. Do the same in summer, increasing the temperature slowly from the previous normal. At first the change is kind of meaningless, it’s so small, but later you’ll start looking for ways to comfortably go further. You’ll find or invent ways to hold on to heat longer in winter, and get rid of it faster in summer.
Ah impressive change in lifestyle. I have been doing things to redu e usage and got on a energy plan where electric is cheaper depending on time of day, charging my EV only at night and running dishwasher late at night, changed thermostat to one O can automate when we leave the house and when we are asleep, I have reduced the temperature in the winter (69 versus 72 last year) though heating is gas for my house haha.
Hank Hill would be sorely disappointed
I’d say we could harness the energy from him spinning in his grave as a green energy source, but isn’t it getting brought back?
I think they’re skipping ahead 20 years and doing it modern with the characters aged uo
Having Bobby be a solar/wind installer would be hilarious though.
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Electric appliance sales and installation would be icing on top.