• BringMeTheDiscoKing@lemmy.ca
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    10 months ago

    Guys. Vote in your interests. Sure Biden might be a complicit war criminal but the other guy is a domestic criminal who would be an enthusiastic war criminal given half a chance.

    Secure your country from the Putin’s pet orangutan for another four years, then rake Biden across the coals.

    If we’re lucky, we won’t have to deal with either of them in 2028.

      • macabrett[they/them]@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        I agree with you and I’d like to point out we’ve done studies and found that “Russiagate” in 2016 was a big nothingburger. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/09/russian-trolls-twitter-had-little-influence-2016-voters/

        Democrats don’t want to hear it, though, because it’s a very convenient excuse for their own failings. Just like them blaming Bernie Bros, despite Bernie supporters voting for Clinton in larger numbers than Clinton supporters voted for Obama 8 years prior.

        They simply don’t want to take responsibility for their own actions (and inaction).

      • Anti-Face Weapon@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        There are a lot of reasons to be suspicious about trump when it comes to colluding with foreign powers, and there is even some evidence. I agree that people often take it too far, into the conspiracy theory territory. But I don’t think it’s quite comparable with QAnon, either in feasibility, or in scope, or in the problematic effects that it may have.

        Also, the American system is, at best, only semi-democratic. The politicians are the ones who determine who is in power, much more than the people who actually vote. Are the citizens really responsible for what politicians we have? Am I responsible, as a man who votes conscientiously, who has campaigned during important elections, and yet does not have any real influence in who gets elected? Is the average person, who is just barely getting by, really expected to change the system by themselves?

        We need systemic change, but we have no class consciousness, and we are not likely to get there. These facts are manipulated by the people in power.

      • BringMeTheDiscoKing@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        Hey yeah, I should stop picking on that Putin guy! 😁

        I said Trump was Putin’s pet. He’s a foreign agent only by happenstance and perhaps through manipulation.

      • Donebrach@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I don’t know what country you live in but that sure is a lot of words that don’t really mean anything.

        Can you please elaborate on what the “foreign agent bullshit” you’re talking about is?

        And can you please also explain how said bullshit is akin to how republicans are blaming Qanaon? (And also please explain what republicans are “blaming” Qanon for, as it’s my understanding that most republicans are followers of Qanon, not critics.)

        If you are a bot account I am sorry for putting you through the wringer as it’s my first day.

    • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      So… When your choices are between two war criminals, your first thought isn’t that the system needs change but that we should vote for the war criminal with a track record of war crimes?

      • rigatti@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        The system needs to change, but with one of those criminals it’s slow progress in the right direction and with the other it’s a sprint towards fascism. Take your pick.

          • rigatti@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Great contribution to the conversation. Laugh if you want, but voting for Democrats in general elections and voting progressive in primaries is the only way this country will make any progress. Push for ranked choice and other non-FPTP voting systems to get people better representation.

            • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              But there has been no progress during my lifetime (well not here and not in the US, there might have been some progress in other parts of the world). In fact, whenever we had “left”-liberals in power here in Germany, the march towards the right only accelerated, as they adopted right-wing neoliberal policies and took at least part their base with them over to the right, and the rest gets marginalized. We’ve had some fatal damage done to the welfare state, worker’s rights and the anti-war movement, all by the social democrats and greens.

              Your affirmation that there is “slow progress” is clearly not true. There was some progress before I was born, but as far as I can tell, that had nothing at all to do with voting for the lesser evil.

              • rigatti@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Are we talking about the US or Germany? And how long have you been alive? Things like legalized gay marriage, legalized marijuana (not federally but in many states), healthcare that can’t deny people because of pre-existing conditions are all examples of progress that have come in the last 15 years. There’s still a long way to go even on those things I mentioned, but ignoring that progress is needlessly pessimistic.

                • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  Sure but it’s always like one small step forward and two large steps back. Abortion was made illegal in many states. US domestic surveillance of its own citizens has increased dramatically and gone unchallenged. Housing and healthcare costs have continued to outpace wage growth. Inequality has increased unabated. Green energy remains woefully underfunded. I could go on.

                  • rigatti@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    You may have not noticed that there’s one side of the government severely holding back all of those efforts.

        • drdiddlybadger@pawb.social
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          10 months ago

          Agreed. Trump’s recent rhetoric has been about dictatorship not presidency. It increasingly appears like a trump win would be the last election for a while.