OTTAWA (Reuters) - About two-thirds of Canadians surveyed this month said American democracy cannot survive another four years of Donald Trump in the White House, and about half said the United States is on the way to becoming an authoritarian state, a poll released on Monday said.
The November U.S. election is likely to pit President Joe Biden against Trump, who is the clear frontrunner to win the Republican nomination as voting in the presidential primary race kicks off in Iowa on Monday.
Sixty-four percent of respondents in the Angus Reid Institute poll of 1,510 Canadians said they agreed with the statement: “U.S. democracy cannot survive another four years of Donald Trump.” Twenty-eight percent disagreed.
The Jan. 6, 2021 attack on Capitol Hill by Trump supporters seeking to block certification of Biden’s 2020 election win shocked many Canadians, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau publicly blamed Trump for inciting the mob.
Trump has vowed if elected again to punish his political enemies, and he has drawn criticism for using increasingly authoritarian language.
Three times as many Canadians say a Biden victory would be better for Canada’s economy (53%) than a Trump win (18%), according to the poll which was seen exclusively by Reuters. The poll, taken between Jan. 9-11, had a margin of error of plus or minus 2 percentage points
Well, yeah. You’d have to be an absolute fucking idiot to say otherwise. The dude tried an insurrection. He routinely violated American democracy. It’s almost like if you elect a wanna be dictator he’s gonna, you know, become a dictator
Dealing with Republicans is like talking to the dumb computer scientist in a Star Trek plot, “I know the last fifteen of these we tried betrayed us and killed millions, but we should totally give control of all our ships and weapons to my new AI program… Hm? Oh, yes, it is a new uniform, thank you for noticing. Yeah, my tailor said it matched the color of my blood.”
I always saw the Vulcans as Republicans, in all honesty.
They are aggressively xenophobic and use ‘logic’ as an excuse to berate, bash, ignore, and forget anything that they don’t like. They claim to be bowing to ideals set by their predecessors but their predecessor would likely be rolling in their grave at what they’ve been doing. They don’t make any real advancement or go further, they’re happy to stay exactly where they’re at with the status quo. They abhor anything that’s different and see giving any sort of space to that difference as a gracious gift to be given and one that the different thing better be grateful for. They lord themselves high and mighty above everyone else but routinely miss the big picture and end up putting themselves into positions of failure due to it. They put far too much into what are mostly superstitious and religious beliefs and those beliefs often impact everyone. When they have a child with someone who isn’t part of their group, they try to raise the child in such a way that the child is permanently torn and confused. When teenagers are confused, frightened and upset instead of allowing them to embrace these feelings and figure out how to control them, they instead root out all compassion and hints of emotion to further what they think is the best.
Ha, this created an unexpected mixture of emotions for me. I never would have thought of this because a lot of my favorite characters are Vulcan crew members who tell non-Vulcans to stop being so emotional and trying to blast their way out of problems or whatever, but yeah, come to think of it pretty much all of those characters had to fight against Vulcan society a ton, so you’ve kinda got a point…
… Which is really annoying, because I’m in the middle of hate-watching Enterprise for the first time and I can’t stop seeing Archer as Rick Berman’s fantasy version of a George W Bush and the Vulcans as stand ins for Europeans and The Democratic party and anyone else who thought we couldn’t solve the problem of international terrorism by just " standing up to bad guys " (which back in our reality translated into conducting drone strikes on civilians and stuff)
Yeah… Enterprise is hard for me to watch because it often feels like Team America Space Police. Not as bad as fucking Stargate mind you. That shit is intolerable…
What episode/series of Star Trek has this dumb computer scientist? I don’t remember this though I haven’t seen all of SNW yet.
It comes up a lot, off the top of my head I definitely remember episodes in lower decks and Discovery and the original series that dealt with this, but I honestly think I’m forgetting a few
Aw I dunno. It’s been a while since we’ve had a good ol’ fashioned US President assassination.
The very last thing you need is for Trump to become a martyr.
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So do Americans.
Seems like half are just a-ok with it.
About 40M A-oks. Only about 12% of Americans. Unfortunately, about half of the voting public. If your county has mandatory voting, thank your lucky stars.
Unfortunately, Republicans will never support compulsory voting since they benefit from low voter turnout. A 90-95 percent turnout rate would be the end of the Republican Party.
Just under half of our Conservatives are, too:
That’s a lot of maple leaves. Canadians really like maple trees don’t they?
I believe it’s to help clarify if it’s a national party (Has leaf like the flag) vs Provincial (no leaf, usually).
We have had a LOT of issues with parties being confusing (until last year, BC’s conservative party was called the “BC Liberals” for example.)
Do Canadians doodle maple leaves at all? I just wondered cos Brits will ocassionally doodle a shitty Union Jack but it looks boring. Kids may do shitty “S” doodles or swastikas if they’re edgy.
I wondered if Canadians do little maple leaves over their pencil cases and papers?
No just the S. Oh and Canada flags but with Marijuana leaf instead
Some might, though I have never seen it, sorry.
The Union Jack is a lot easier to doodle.
What is ppc?
People Party of the Canada. Extreme right-wing folks like Republicans. The Progressive Conservative Party is what Democrats are like on the spectrum.
Sadly, you’re right.
Electoral College, gerrymandering, etc. The fact anyone thinks their vote matters is astonishing.
There are plenty of ways a vote matters even in those circumstances.
EC and gerrymandering have no effect on governors or senators. Those are absurdly powerful positions.
EC and gerrymandering also don’t affect local county and city offices which can play an outsized role in how your local government and community interact.
I’d strongly recommend you look into the damage both of those elements have caused to the democratic process. I fully expected that comment to not sit right with people… it needed to be said though. Nobody likes finding out how the sausage is made. We have the technology to have a popular vote directly drive elections… why doesn’t it? Simple: Control. We could, as a nation, cast 0 votes as a show of no confidence… and I promise you someone would still be elected. This is a broad topic. I wasn’t referring to local- which definitely have their own issues.
Canadians wonder why the fuck Democrats simply dont arrest him for criminal activity
Because we don’t want to interfere with the system and make it a politically orchestrated arrest.
The normal forces that be are working on it… It’s just taking time… Due process and all that jazz
Dead wrong. The only reason it’s “political” is because the fucking Telecommunications Act hasnt been violently repealed.
This is not an “it takes time” issue. It’s a criminal offensive. Incrementalist bullshit is why we have fascist threats now.
Part of the problem is that they’re trying to not give him anything he can appeal.
Prosecution like this can take a while to happen because you only get one shot at it, and it’s vital that it doesn’t fail for bullshit reasons.
How does that work for private citizens or bottom ranked government employees who steal government documents and try to sell them to foreign nations? Do we go slow and try to get it right because there’s only one shot at it and you dont want it to fail for bullshit reasons?
Those people don’t have a cult of millions of deranged terrorists itching to violently overthrow the government and a good chance at being president again (which would be the end of our country).
Sometimes you have to be patient to get your desired outcome.
But, just look at Al Capone. We knew he was guilty as fuck for a long time, but it took a long time to build a case to put him away, even if it was just for tax fraud.
The cult doesnt go away, and they have to be dealt with as a violent domestic terrorist threat also. Because THEY ARE.
I’m not arguing against that, but some situations require a more nuanced approach. Just arresting him and throwing him in prison would make him a martyr to his cult of dumbasses
So your answer is that you are too afraid of Trump to properly enforce the law.
I’m sorry about your reading comprehension. You might try reading more books to improve it.
they’re trying to not give him anything he can appeal
There’s nothing that cannot be appealed. Just look at the last round of fighting over his slander of Eugene Caroll. He lost that legal fight fair and square and he’ll be appealing it up the chain for the next decade to avoid making any kind of payments.
This is a bullshit excuse to drag your heels and do nothing.
Investigating, bringing charges against, and prosecuting a large scale criminal enterprise does not happen overnight.
You can say I’m “dead wrong” all you want but if this happened “instantly” or anywhere near instantly, it would not be sound, and it would not be right.
Trump would walk because they jumped the gun and entered the room under prepared.
This isn’t a gang, the Democrats can’t just say “go throw him in jail” and even if they could I would argue that would be a bad thing. Political prosecution is the opposite of a system running on the rule of law which is what the US system aspires to be.
make it a politically orchestrated arrest.
Every arrest is politically orchestrated. That is the nature of a public sector police force.
What shields Trump isn’t politics but power. He’s got armies of angry old white guys - many of whom occupy the very offices that would be charged with his arrest, prosecution, and imprisonment - and Biden’s gang is terrified that if they were to actually demand his siezer they would be the ones in handcuffs by the end.
Every arrest is politically orchestrated.
Oh give me a break.
Parties don’t arrest people, the justice system does.
It is the President’s #1 job to protect the country from all threats to it and it’s Constitution and from all enemies both foreign and domestic.
Biden is failing at his NUMBER ONE JOB.
Flexing his power to attack his political rivals is exactly what he needs to avoid doing. That is what Trump is doing and has been doing and that is the problem. If Biden has to step in, we’ve already failed.
It is in everyone’s best interest that the current President does not do anything other than watch the justice system play out, just like every other US citizen.
There is no action that he can take that will not make things worse.
It is literally his #1 job. It has nothing to do with pilitical rivalry. The fact that the terrorist if a former president is utterly irrelevant. You are just trying to make excuses to allow trump back into office.
Couldn’t be further from what I want. What I don’t want to do is to give the Republicans, or any party reason to argue that whatever measures are taken against Trump are not lawful. It needs to be unambiguous that he violated the law of the land and establish that precedent so that executive action is not required, encouraged, needed or possibly even allowed. Otherwise we have accomplished literally nothing to protect our democracy, quite the opposite, in fact. Presidential decree is not law and can’t be expected to survive one administration to the next.
Calling it his number 1 job is hyperbole unless it stands up in court. And if it does, I will agree with you, just show me the court case.
That’s the point of checks and balances; to draw a clear separation of power.
As CinC of the armed forces, his number one job is to defend the country from theeats both foreign and domestic. There is no court case necessary.
Trump has declared out loud in no uncertain terms that his intention is to destroy both democracy and representative republicanism in a direct attack on the US Constitution.
Biden’s number one job is to apprehend him.
And what happens when one of his Republican boot lickers buddies get into office? They can either undo it and let him go or use similar justification to imprison their political rivals even if it’s not as clear cut.
It would be much better for the justice system to handle it. If they don’t, then maybe Biden will need to, but as I said, that is an overall loss if he is forced to.
That would require Democrats to do something that wasn’t bipartisan.
Same Canada, same
…unlike Republicans, who think democracy won’t survive, but aren’t worried because “their” guy will be the dictator.
I came to say exactly that. They are perfectly aware that they are going to overthrow democracy and it’s not clear to me that they don’t do it regardless of whether they win or lose.
Here are the detailed tables and as usual with this kind of question it’s Conservatives VS everybody else.
https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024.01.12_StateofNations_tables.pdf
The largest contingent of people who thinks Trump would be better votes Conservative Party of Canada, is a man, and has high school or less education.
They also are unfortunately on a path towards putting Conservatives in government here in Canada.
They also are unfortunately on a path towards putting Conservatives in government here in Canada.
Not quite. The conservatives aren’t enough to put the CPC in government. They need folks who’d otherwise vote for one of the other parties in order to win. So in a way, it’s some of the rest of us who would put the conservatives in office.
Stephen Harper says hi
PTSD
I’m starting to see a lot of poor coworkers think PP would do a better job than Trudeau, and as usual dont realise they can vote NDP or Green if the Liberals are pissing them off…
I’m not surprised. It’s pretty standard to think cons would improve their lives when that can’t be further from the truth. It’s not like the libs are super labor friendly but at least they aren’t actively anti-labor, unlike the cons. I wish folks got how the system works a bit better. Specifically how capital extracts profit from labor and how labor can take more the profit they created. Cause this is at the base of everything and no amount of tax cuts can compensate, and precisely these coworkers can change that. And that’s a durable change, irrespective of which bobble head is in power.
I’m not sure it really deserves to survive if this country elects Trump a second time.
The point trump has abundantly made is that he wishes to do away with democracy as we knew it.
It’s not that it won’t survive some rambling and ineffectual idiot, it will be actively crushed by him and his supporters.
Wait I know I saw this article like two months ago. Is that what you Canadians have been up to the past 8 weeks? Just sitting there in a constant state of worry?
Am Canadian. Can confirm.
Yep. Can confirm as well. And a weaker US democracy would create a power vaccuum in NATO that would very likely be exploited with the power dynamics in play on the global scale in recent years.
Australian here. I’m pretty sure the entire world shares similar concerns.
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Just sitting there in a constant state of worry?
When the downstairs neighbors keep piling up more firewood, and won’t listen to cooler heads, worry is an appropriate response.
Me too Canada. Me too. I don’t suppose we could convince you to move down here with Trudeau and we kick trump and his supporters up there with your conservatives?
We’re about to elect our own mini Trump, so like usual, we act like we’re better than the states, but just wait a decade to follow in their footsteps. At least we have Gun Control and Universal Healthcare tho…
For now…
Agreed
For now.
Always be wary.
Poilievre is hardly a mini-Trump. One of the things that made Trump pretty unique is that he was elected President without ever having held any other political office. Poilievre, OTOH, has never had a non-political job.
If there’s any Canadian politician who’s Trumpish, it would probably be Rob Ford. Son of a wealthy family, scandal after scandal in office, etc.
We’re about to elect our own mini Trump? News to me. Sounds like fear mongering. Gunna need a source on that.
Im being a tad bit sendationalist, but if you seriously believe PP wont fuck us far harder than Trudeau has then get you ass back to Alberta
I do believe PP will absolutely fuck us harder than Trudeau. You can state your point without being sensational. I’m also from BC, and vote hard NDP, not that I need to justify that.
I’m simply saying you shouldn’t fear-monger unless you have some material to back it up.
Downvoting for honest discussion is also not going to win you any arguments, but carry on. I upvote honest discussion, and encourage you and others to do so. We can talk like adults without telling others to go to another province.
I’m not trying to win an argument by downvoting you, we just have different measures by which we downvote. Shits legitimately bad here already and PP making things worse is a very real and present fear, so yeah, my statement is a LITTLE sensationalist, but the Canadian conservative parties are following the same route as the American conservatives, so no, I dont feel it was worth the attitude you gave me in your first message, hence why I downvoted you. A lot of us are at our limits and losing hope for the future, which is a recipe for facist ideology to take root and our conservatives, PP not being an exception, are amplifying this fear without any real solutions, and a lot of Canadians are starting to buy into that.
Just asked for a source, but whatever. Keep your stick on the ice mate
I’m an American and I don’t expect democracy to survive the orange bastard either.
Canadians are correct.
We took the same bullshit apologetic approach after the Civil War with “reconstruction” and look where we are now: rotten to the core with racists, sexists and xenophobes.
For the most part, historians view Andrew Johnson as the worst possible person to have served as President at the end of the American Civil War. Because of his gross incompetence in federal office and his incredible miscalculation of the extent of public support for his policies, Johnson is judged as a great failure in making a satisfying and just peace. He is viewed to have been a rigid, dictatorial racist who was unable to compromise or to accept a political reality at odds with his own ideas. Instead of forging a compromise between Radical Republicans and moderates, his actions united the opposition against him. His bullheaded opposition to the Freedmen’s Bureau Bill, the Civil Rights Act of 1866, and the Fourteenth Amendment eliminated all hope of using presidential authority to effect further compromises favorable to his position. In the end, Johnson did more to extend the period of national strife than he did to heal the wounds of war.
On top of my joy at another opportunity to mention what a shitbird Johnson was, a shittyness we are still feeling, IMO, the bolded bit sounds a lot like another President I can think of.
There have been two president Johnsons, one was a piece of shit and the other wielded “Jumbo”.
Ah yes, the “Let it out at the bunghole” Johnson.
So uh will Canada take refugees?
Not if yer just gonna take err jerbs!
There’s going to be plenty of jobs ploughing when that permafrost melts and the rest of the planet is too hot to grow crops.
Ohhh I wouldn’t know about all them climate things. I am just a simple Canadian coconut farmer.
and yet WE’RE FOLLOWING IN THEIR FOOTSTEPS IF WE VOTE IN PP
Remember, one of our national past times is watching as everything around us collapses while we shake each other’s hands for at least not being AS bad as the states
It really is!
