What is rightthink and what is wrongthink is already predetermined before conversations start. So someone who is young and wants to think for themselves cannot hold a position that is not already predetermined, they cannot even talk something through to get the right answer because even holding the wrong answer is liable for attack.
Not even that but not holding the right answer and advocating for it aggressively is already aggressively wrong.
And who is responsible for most of these issues? You guessed it white men. No only do they have to hold the right position they have to defend that position more than anyone else.
The world is getting a lot more competitive but I think the thinks most guys care about is getting girls and getting money do to things like by a house. Sex has gotten horrifically competitive with some guys getting laid loads and some guys not getting any. It pays to be the best and guys know that, lying about it doesn’t help anyone. Theoretically evening out that somehow is probably better for society but I can’t even conceive of how that would happen, but might be an explaination of how marriage for life became the norm.
In terms of money it’s difficult for everyone, but then for everyone else to get a leg up when you are struggling is aggravating. All anyone wants is a level playing field and white guys don’t get that. Also girls still like guys with money whereas it isn’t the same the other way around.
Sure you can say something like women liking guys with money is all part of the patriarchy and pushes that back onto men. But serious, how are the current generation going to fix that? It’s okay for women to feel money makes a man but not to change, but it’s not okay for men to let that happen. That just doesn’t make sense.
Then the mental health aspect is men don’t have anything. They get attacked, they get told they need to be strong, countless examples of women abusing men for being weak (that’s seems the norm in relationships) I guess that’s somehow not women’s responsibility either it’s the patriarchy. So men find comfort and support in other men but that is also not okay. There are no man days in work, no male only spaces, no one trying to push men into a career for teaching. Men even having a normal guy only friendship group gets attacked in ways that women only friendship groups don’t.
I’m sure this comment will do poorly because it doesn’t fit the narrative and people will gloss over it but that’s the explaination of what’s going wrong in guys lives today.
And another hard fact for a lot of people here is the right actually have some points. Can you believe that a huge contingents of different attributes supported by ~50% of the population has some things going for it. I am left wing, probably very left wing. But the way the left act is pushing a lot of people to the right. Conversations with the right are much more open, much more free. The left is so aggressive and unopen to discussion it pushes people away. If the right offers equality and tells young boys they are not born with oringal sin for being boys, then people are going to listen. We need a party that is left economically but individually right.
Boys are told how to think and they must advocate for that position or they are wrong. No discussion.
White men are the cause of issues, even for things like women abusing men because it’s due to the patriarchy.
The world is actually competitive for sex and money. More so than ever.
Men getting the blame, not having any help, not being allowed things that help their mental health pushes them to the right because the right has more open conversations and more equality for all. (Well with the exception of financially).
Sex has gotten horrifically competitive with some guys getting laid loads and some guys not getting any.
Borderline incel horseshit.
Theoretically evening out that somehow is probably better for society
Nevermind, outright incel horseshit.
I am left wing, probably very left wing. But the way the left act is pushing a lot of people to the right.
I’ve heard this a lot - almost always from smirking fascists. The sort who think the left do anything but discuss. They talk so much they get nothing done.
Right-wing conversations are empty slogan contests, in a manipulative tone of voice. Like “original sin for being boys,” a fucking obvious strawman, commonly spat when someone describes toxic masculinity. Which is not a criticism of masculinity any more than “don’t eat poisoned apples” is a criticism of apples.
We need a party that is left economically but individually right.
Oh, like the Strasserites. Sincere anticapitalists committed to a strong national identity, right up until they were dragged into the street and shot on the Night of the Long Knives because they were fucking Nazis.
You accuse me of using a strawman later then use the biggest strawman ever.
You don’t believe sex and money have gotten more competitive over time? (Just look at tinder just look at the working poor)
You think it’s good for society if sex and money gets more competitive over time? If no then what have I said that’s wrong?
I’ve heard this a lot - almost always from smirking fascists. The sort who think the left do anything but discuss. They talk so much they get nothing done.
He’s the best way I can describe it. The right will say that “taxes should be low and that people should make their own way in life, so people either need to pay for their own education or get their parents to do it”. The left would say “education should be free”. That’s part 1, part 2 is the right will say “The best applicant should get the job” the left will say “it doesn’t matter about who is best what we want is more women, so all the male applicants can be ignored” (which is never reversed either). Part 1 most people are left part 2 most people are right. Unfortunately the left are shooting themselves in the foot.
It’s always toxic masculinity and men are always responsible for it. Even if a boy is young and has never made a decision in their life they are told they are responsible for toxic masculinity and need to fix it. The term itself is sexist as it implies, and is used, to say men are entirely at fault for this. Toxic feminism is never talked about. Women are never told they need to stop with the toxic masculinity. They are never told to stop expecting men to be emotionless and strong all the time, instead men are told to have more emotion. Yet for most men they say “when I showed emotion to my girlfriend she used it against me or we broke up” yet somehow that’s mens fault.
You put “rightthink” and “wrongthink” in your first sentence. Don’t whine about an Orwell connection when you made it.
You don’t believe sex and money have gotten more competitive over time?
One, those topics are not related, and slapping them together is a tell.
Two, talking about relationships as nothing but sex, and also a competition, is depressingly transparent on a level I’m not sure words can convey. The fact you asked this question is damning. The answer is no, but the answer doesn’t matter, because it’s like asking about “Muslim birthrates” or “human biodiversity.” The framing itself is fucked. If you yourself are not a diet Nazi then you’re getting ideas from people who definitely are. Being human feels kinda broken, and someone offered a simple scapegoat that feels satisfying to hammer on, even though you know the implications are horrific: “I can’t even conceive of how that would happen.”
Describing access to vaginas as some kind of resource to be distributed is dehumanizing - and anyone suggesting you’re owed a woman is a fucking monster.
Three, concentration of wealth is intrinsic to right-wing economics. So congratulations on figuring out those suck. Shame your mouth’s still full of their dishonest takes about gender equality.
the left will say “it doesn’t matter about who is best what we want is more women, so all the male applicants can be ignored”
Arguments are easy when you just make shit up.
Toxic feminism is never talked about.
Because it’d be toxic femininity, genius. And of fucking course feminists address how stereotypes about women impact women - but the ranting Youtube manosphere dorks you seem to get your information from do not understand the concept. They think pushing girls toward pink and frills and cooking and babies is good, actually, even when it’s exaggerated to exclusionary extremes, and girls who don’t do that suffer ostracism and mockery. That’s the exact mirror of boys suffering when cliche masculine associations are twisted into unyielding demands… usually at the hands of other boys.
No feminist is out there telling boys to get laid or they’re a failure. That’s y’all. You do that shit - as you’re doing in these very comments - and you scoff at the label for it, because you don’t like how it sounds.
A rose by any other name would have just as many pricks.
Looks like we are going to have to start at the basics with this one.
noun: strawman
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument
The Nazi comment you made was a strawman. Nice one.
Then I pointed it out and you switched it to me complaining about 1984. Again nice strawman.
Two, talking about relationships as nothing but sex, and also a competition, is depressingly transparent on a level I’m not sure words can convey. The fact you asked this question is damning. The answer is no, but the answer doesn’t matter, because it’s like asking about “Muslim birthrates” or “human biodiversity.” The framing itself is fucked. If you yourself are not a diet Nazi then you’re getting ideas from people who definitely are. Being human feels kinda broken, and someone offered a simple scapegoat that feels satisfying to hammer on, even though you know the implications are horrific: “I can’t even conceive of how that would happen.”
Wow yet another strawman
Describing access to vaginas as some kind of resource to be distributed is dehumanizing - and anyone suggesting you’re owed a woman is a fucking monster
Yet another strawman! I never said anything of the sort.
the left will say “it doesn’t matter about who is best what we want is more women, so all the male applicants can be ignored”
Arguments are easy when you just make shit up.
No I’ve seen it first hand and it’s been in the news. Women get way more leg ups than men and numbers get capped or reserved.
Because it’d be toxic femininity, genius. And of fucking course feminists address how stereotypes about women impact women - but the ranting Youtube manosphere dorks you seem to get your information from do not understand the concept. They think pushing girls toward pink and frills and cooking and babies is good, actually, even when it’s exaggerated to exclusionary extremes, and girls who don’t do that suffer ostracism and mockery. That’s the exact mirror of boys suffering when cliche masculine associations are twisted into unyielding demands… usually at the hands of other boys.
Think this was in reference to women attacking and looking down on men for being unmanly. Yet no mention of how women should behave better, who’s responsible for that?
No feminist is out there telling boys to get laid or they’re a failure. That’s y’all. You do that shit
Haha its like you’ve not met women. Women always make out guys are pissy because they can’t get laid or because they are short. But I’ve never seen guys do it, guys just enjoy having sex that’s why they try to get it. And very frequently they help each other.
Diet Nazis are the subject of the article. That’s what parents’ sons become, when they “slide to the right.” Your lack of clarity in pointless whining does not make my dismissal the problem.
Your lies about what you said in plain fucking English help nobody. You wrote: “you don’t believe sex and money have gotten more competitive over time?” You describe sex as a competition, in as many words. You directly conflate it with competition for money.
Regarding guys “getting girls,” you explicitly mused about “evening out that somehow.”
Stand by what you say or shut up.
I’ve never seen guys […] make out guys are pissy because they can’t get laid or because they are short.
You’ve been that guy, in this conversation. Examples in omnipresent media are so plentiful I’d be here all day slapping your face with them just to call you liar again. Have you ever watched a single action movie, boner comedy, or high-school drama? Try it some time, it’ll be a novel experience, if you’re not just obviously full of shit.
If you don’t care what words mean then I won’t care about you.
I was on about how children grow up and the lack of discourse and ability to think for themselves. I’m sorry you were unable to understand that and had to take the extreme examples only.
Because they are. Everything is a competition, work, housing, relationships, sex, money that’s just how it is. Sure it’s not the same as a foot race competition but you still competing against others that’s the defintion of the word.
That’s not distributing a resource though. You said that. All I was musing was that it would be healthier if people and society if people weren’t chasing what they want all the time. If some guys weren’t fucking a different girl everyweek and chasing that high, if guys weren’t trying to emulate those guys just to get one bit of positive attention from women, if women weren’t casually shagging some guy out of their league then remaining single because they “can’t get a good guy” but really they been fucking guys who have no interest in settling they just been playing the game. I think society would be better. How that happens I don’t know. If you dont agree with that you must look fondly on the pickup cluture as much as the “artist” do. Education probably the answer maybe something like mens clubs could be one example as I said before were you can get intergenerational knowledge and guys can tell younguns what’s important in life. But really it’s a difficult problem and whether you agree or not I don’t think that’s the optimal state of society, what is I don’t know.
Weirdly I have had this abuse from women. Not from guys when I was a virgin as a child, but I got it from girls. I didnt get it from guys either, i did get ribbed when I hit on a girl and failed but only in a light humoured funny way, but I did get it from girls. Which seeing as I’m 6’1 and got the nickname “top shagger” in my university rugby club it really goes to show how high the bar is for girls and how hurtful they actually try to be. Like I said I’m 6’1 and slept around so I’m not really bothered, but I can see and empathise with others. I don’t think it’s fair to out of the blue say things like “if you was taller girls would like you”. But whatever, girls seem to think that’s a good thing to say.
Can you believe that a huge contingents of different attributes supported by ~50% of the population has some things going for it. I am left wing, probably very left wing. But the way the left act is pushing a lot of people to the right. Conversations with the right are much more open, much more free. The left is so aggressive and unopen to discussion it pushes people away. If the right offers equality and tells young boys they are not born with oringal sin for being boys, then people are going to listen. We need a party that is left economically but individually right.
I was with you until this part.
No, 50% of the population isn’t on the current political right, not even 50% of the voting population is on the political right. In Canada it’s much closer to a third of the population. Just because there are two mainstream political sides, does not mean they divide the population accurately.
And second, Conservative conversation spaces tend to have a lot of censorship as well. Look at the conservative subreddits, or Twitter right now, or Truth Social, or Parlor, or any other “conservative” space. Dissent gets you banned. Maybe it feels like you can have more conversation there because the opposition just disappears and you never have to think about it. That’s not to say primarily left wing spaces or online social justice warriors are perfect, there are a ton of very very active anti-car/capitalism/whatever people who will aggressively harass people too.
What is rightthink and what is wrongthink is already predetermined before conversations start. So someone who is young and wants to think for themselves cannot hold a position that is not already predetermined, they cannot even talk something through to get the right answer because even holding the wrong answer is liable for attack.
Not even that but not holding the right answer and advocating for it aggressively is already aggressively wrong.
And who is responsible for most of these issues? You guessed it white men. No only do they have to hold the right position they have to defend that position more than anyone else.
The world is getting a lot more competitive but I think the thinks most guys care about is getting girls and getting money do to things like by a house. Sex has gotten horrifically competitive with some guys getting laid loads and some guys not getting any. It pays to be the best and guys know that, lying about it doesn’t help anyone. Theoretically evening out that somehow is probably better for society but I can’t even conceive of how that would happen, but might be an explaination of how marriage for life became the norm.
In terms of money it’s difficult for everyone, but then for everyone else to get a leg up when you are struggling is aggravating. All anyone wants is a level playing field and white guys don’t get that. Also girls still like guys with money whereas it isn’t the same the other way around.
Sure you can say something like women liking guys with money is all part of the patriarchy and pushes that back onto men. But serious, how are the current generation going to fix that? It’s okay for women to feel money makes a man but not to change, but it’s not okay for men to let that happen. That just doesn’t make sense.
Then the mental health aspect is men don’t have anything. They get attacked, they get told they need to be strong, countless examples of women abusing men for being weak (that’s seems the norm in relationships) I guess that’s somehow not women’s responsibility either it’s the patriarchy. So men find comfort and support in other men but that is also not okay. There are no man days in work, no male only spaces, no one trying to push men into a career for teaching. Men even having a normal guy only friendship group gets attacked in ways that women only friendship groups don’t.
I’m sure this comment will do poorly because it doesn’t fit the narrative and people will gloss over it but that’s the explaination of what’s going wrong in guys lives today.
And another hard fact for a lot of people here is the right actually have some points. Can you believe that a huge contingents of different attributes supported by ~50% of the population has some things going for it. I am left wing, probably very left wing. But the way the left act is pushing a lot of people to the right. Conversations with the right are much more open, much more free. The left is so aggressive and unopen to discussion it pushes people away. If the right offers equality and tells young boys they are not born with oringal sin for being boys, then people are going to listen. We need a party that is left economically but individually right.
deleted by creator
Tldr
Boys are told how to think and they must advocate for that position or they are wrong. No discussion.
White men are the cause of issues, even for things like women abusing men because it’s due to the patriarchy.
The world is actually competitive for sex and money. More so than ever.
Men getting the blame, not having any help, not being allowed things that help their mental health pushes them to the right because the right has more open conversations and more equality for all. (Well with the exception of financially).
Lmao.You live in a fantasy world
“Son, don’t be a Nazi.”
“OMG literally 1984.”
Borderline incel horseshit.
Nevermind, outright incel horseshit.
I’ve heard this a lot - almost always from smirking fascists. The sort who think the left do anything but discuss. They talk so much they get nothing done.
Right-wing conversations are empty slogan contests, in a manipulative tone of voice. Like “original sin for being boys,” a fucking obvious strawman, commonly spat when someone describes toxic masculinity. Which is not a criticism of masculinity any more than “don’t eat poisoned apples” is a criticism of apples.
Oh, like the Strasserites. Sincere anticapitalists committed to a strong national identity, right up until they were dragged into the street and shot on the Night of the Long Knives because they were fucking Nazis.
You accuse me of using a strawman later then use the biggest strawman ever.
You don’t believe sex and money have gotten more competitive over time? (Just look at tinder just look at the working poor)
You think it’s good for society if sex and money gets more competitive over time? If no then what have I said that’s wrong?
He’s the best way I can describe it. The right will say that “taxes should be low and that people should make their own way in life, so people either need to pay for their own education or get their parents to do it”. The left would say “education should be free”. That’s part 1, part 2 is the right will say “The best applicant should get the job” the left will say “it doesn’t matter about who is best what we want is more women, so all the male applicants can be ignored” (which is never reversed either). Part 1 most people are left part 2 most people are right. Unfortunately the left are shooting themselves in the foot.
It’s always toxic masculinity and men are always responsible for it. Even if a boy is young and has never made a decision in their life they are told they are responsible for toxic masculinity and need to fix it. The term itself is sexist as it implies, and is used, to say men are entirely at fault for this. Toxic feminism is never talked about. Women are never told they need to stop with the toxic masculinity. They are never told to stop expecting men to be emotionless and strong all the time, instead men are told to have more emotion. Yet for most men they say “when I showed emotion to my girlfriend she used it against me or we broke up” yet somehow that’s mens fault.
You put “rightthink” and “wrongthink” in your first sentence. Don’t whine about an Orwell connection when you made it.
One, those topics are not related, and slapping them together is a tell.
Two, talking about relationships as nothing but sex, and also a competition, is depressingly transparent on a level I’m not sure words can convey. The fact you asked this question is damning. The answer is no, but the answer doesn’t matter, because it’s like asking about “Muslim birthrates” or “human biodiversity.” The framing itself is fucked. If you yourself are not a diet Nazi then you’re getting ideas from people who definitely are. Being human feels kinda broken, and someone offered a simple scapegoat that feels satisfying to hammer on, even though you know the implications are horrific: “I can’t even conceive of how that would happen.”
Describing access to vaginas as some kind of resource to be distributed is dehumanizing - and anyone suggesting you’re owed a woman is a fucking monster.
Three, concentration of wealth is intrinsic to right-wing economics. So congratulations on figuring out those suck. Shame your mouth’s still full of their dishonest takes about gender equality.
Arguments are easy when you just make shit up.
Because it’d be toxic femininity, genius. And of fucking course feminists address how stereotypes about women impact women - but the ranting Youtube manosphere dorks you seem to get your information from do not understand the concept. They think pushing girls toward pink and frills and cooking and babies is good, actually, even when it’s exaggerated to exclusionary extremes, and girls who don’t do that suffer ostracism and mockery. That’s the exact mirror of boys suffering when cliche masculine associations are twisted into unyielding demands… usually at the hands of other boys.
No feminist is out there telling boys to get laid or they’re a failure. That’s y’all. You do that shit - as you’re doing in these very comments - and you scoff at the label for it, because you don’t like how it sounds.
A rose by any other name would have just as many pricks.
Looks like we are going to have to start at the basics with this one.
noun: strawman an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument
The Nazi comment you made was a strawman. Nice one.
Then I pointed it out and you switched it to me complaining about 1984. Again nice strawman.
Wow yet another strawman
Yet another strawman! I never said anything of the sort.
No I’ve seen it first hand and it’s been in the news. Women get way more leg ups than men and numbers get capped or reserved.
Think this was in reference to women attacking and looking down on men for being unmanly. Yet no mention of how women should behave better, who’s responsible for that?
Haha its like you’ve not met women. Women always make out guys are pissy because they can’t get laid or because they are short. But I’ve never seen guys do it, guys just enjoy having sex that’s why they try to get it. And very frequently they help each other.
Man what a complete mess of a comment haha.
Diet Nazis are the subject of the article. That’s what parents’ sons become, when they “slide to the right.” Your lack of clarity in pointless whining does not make my dismissal the problem.
Your lies about what you said in plain fucking English help nobody. You wrote: “you don’t believe sex and money have gotten more competitive over time?” You describe sex as a competition, in as many words. You directly conflate it with competition for money.
Regarding guys “getting girls,” you explicitly mused about “evening out that somehow.”
Stand by what you say or shut up.
You’ve been that guy, in this conversation. Examples in omnipresent media are so plentiful I’d be here all day slapping your face with them just to call you liar again. Have you ever watched a single action movie, boner comedy, or high-school drama? Try it some time, it’ll be a novel experience, if you’re not just obviously full of shit.
If you don’t care what words mean then I won’t care about you.
I was on about how children grow up and the lack of discourse and ability to think for themselves. I’m sorry you were unable to understand that and had to take the extreme examples only.
Because they are. Everything is a competition, work, housing, relationships, sex, money that’s just how it is. Sure it’s not the same as a foot race competition but you still competing against others that’s the defintion of the word.
That’s not distributing a resource though. You said that. All I was musing was that it would be healthier if people and society if people weren’t chasing what they want all the time. If some guys weren’t fucking a different girl everyweek and chasing that high, if guys weren’t trying to emulate those guys just to get one bit of positive attention from women, if women weren’t casually shagging some guy out of their league then remaining single because they “can’t get a good guy” but really they been fucking guys who have no interest in settling they just been playing the game. I think society would be better. How that happens I don’t know. If you dont agree with that you must look fondly on the pickup cluture as much as the “artist” do. Education probably the answer maybe something like mens clubs could be one example as I said before were you can get intergenerational knowledge and guys can tell younguns what’s important in life. But really it’s a difficult problem and whether you agree or not I don’t think that’s the optimal state of society, what is I don’t know.
Weirdly I have had this abuse from women. Not from guys when I was a virgin as a child, but I got it from girls. I didnt get it from guys either, i did get ribbed when I hit on a girl and failed but only in a light humoured funny way, but I did get it from girls. Which seeing as I’m 6’1 and got the nickname “top shagger” in my university rugby club it really goes to show how high the bar is for girls and how hurtful they actually try to be. Like I said I’m 6’1 and slept around so I’m not really bothered, but I can see and empathise with others. I don’t think it’s fair to out of the blue say things like “if you was taller girls would like you”. But whatever, girls seem to think that’s a good thing to say.
What an open wound of a comment.
And not in any of the ways you seem to think.
I was with you until this part.
No, 50% of the population isn’t on the current political right, not even 50% of the voting population is on the political right. In Canada it’s much closer to a third of the population. Just because there are two mainstream political sides, does not mean they divide the population accurately.
And second, Conservative conversation spaces tend to have a lot of censorship as well. Look at the conservative subreddits, or Twitter right now, or Truth Social, or Parlor, or any other “conservative” space. Dissent gets you banned. Maybe it feels like you can have more conversation there because the opposition just disappears and you never have to think about it. That’s not to say primarily left wing spaces or online social justice warriors are perfect, there are a ton of very very active anti-car/capitalism/whatever people who will aggressively harass people too.