A loud minority of Texans call for Independence, which is not really possible as far as I know, BUT could the Rest of the USA just kick another state (Not necessary Texas) out? Or is this also not possible?

  • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1413·
    10 months ago

    The US Constitution currently has no mechanism to break any individual State out of the Union. Throughout our history, this has been interpreted as a sign that the Union is perpetual, and not able to be dissolved. This got put to the test in our Civil War, where a bunch of states up and said “We’re Leaving” and the Federal Government said “You can’t just do that”. They fought a war over it, and the Federal Government won, proving its position correct by force.

    With that said, the US was founded as a government of the People, and so if the people want to carve out a way for States to leave, they must first establish a mechanism via amending the Constitution, which requires a 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress (or a Constitutional Convention) coupled with 3/4 of State Legislatures ratifying it.

    There is a provision, though, to make States out of other States. Maine and West Virginia were both formed out of land that belonged to Massachusetts and Virginia.

      • EatATaco@lemm.eeEnglish
        10·
        10 months ago

        It’s laid out very explicitly in the COTUS (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1):

        New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

        The funny thing is that during the civil war, West Virginia seceded from Virginia, and Congress voted to allow it and they were accepted into the union. There are a lot of people who argue that when that happened it was unconstitutional. However, it has never been tested, as far as I know.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      41·
      10 months ago

      You could just pass an amendment…

      But specifically for kicking a state out I don’t think the bar is that high. If the legislature and executive agreed then it could be done very quickly.

      • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        10 months ago

        Oh, but there are all sorts of details to work out…

        • are citizens of the state no longer US citizens?
        • if so, what happens to their Social Security? Medicare? I don’t want to keep paying for those freeloaders
        • if they treat it like renouncing citizenship, they make those people pay taxes on all their assets and 401(k) holdings before leaving
        • Do armed forces members from those states now get kicked out of the US armed forces and go to the new state’s armed forces?
        • Does the new state get to take over any military bases and Federal buildings?
        • Can the rest of us build a wall on the border and make them pay for it?

        There’s a lot to iron out. The Brits got screwed with Brexit, and they weren’t even leaving a country.

        • lordnikon@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          10 months ago

          it was worse than that and even dumber the UK was a founding member and had extra perks. That other EU members didn’t get and they threw all that away. Even if they do join back they will never get that deal again.

          • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            10 months ago

            Even if they do join back they will never get that deal again.

            and yet it’s still the most logical thing for them to do, security, trade and otherwise. it’ll hurt a bit, that sting is pride lol… but it’d still be the best thing for both the UK and EU.

            otherwise eventually I see Ireland unifying and Scotland going to the EU lol.

      • HandBreadedTools@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        10 months ago

        No lol your second statement is literally just wrong. The only way to do anything like this would be through an Amendment, which equated to literally changing the rules bc the current rules do not allow for it.

      • Jojo@lemm.ee
        3·
        10 months ago

        “Just” passing an amendment requires more than 75% of states to ratify the amendment. So even if all of Congress decided nuts to Delaware, we’re moving them out, it would still go to the state of legislatures to be formalized

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          12·
          10 months ago

          Oh no the amendment is for if a state wants to leave. Since there’s no standard around kicking a state out at all, it defaults to 50+1 votes in Congress and a President willing to enforce it

          • Jojo@lemm.ee
            1·
            10 months ago

            I expect at the very least you’d also need scotus to agree, though if legislative and executive are both willing to ignore them then …profit?

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
              21·
              10 months ago

              Yeah that’s the checks and balances. SCOTUS literally has no power without Congress or the President.

              • Jojo@lemm.ee
                1·
                10 months ago

                Yeah, but it wouldn’t be “legal” unless scotus agreed it was, even if it happened anyway.

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                  12·
                  10 months ago

                  No. SCOTUS does not have to agree to everything. In fact there’s no Constitutional power for them to take a law up for review without a case. They gave themselves that power.

                  • Jojo@lemm.ee
                    1·
                    10 months ago

                    I find it implausible there would be no challenge, so scotus would have to agree either passively by refusing to take the case or actively by taking it in order for its legality to be settled.