• IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    It’s going to be such a fantastic 4 years with Donnie after watching D’s tear themselves apart ignoring Biden being great and just being completely unrealistic and unreasonable with reality.

    • Deceptichum
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      8 months ago

      . . . So you think not enabling genocide is unrealistic and unreasonable with reality?

      The bar here is pretty low, stop sending Israel weapons and money, stop defending them in the UN, and stop saying you support them.

      • Kecessa
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        8 months ago

        You don’t prevent genocide by letting the guy who can’t be convinced anything is a bad idea win instead of the guy who can.

        If both options were reasonable then ok, let the other guy win as a matter of principle, but right now the alternative is way worse and won’t help with your cause either.

        • Deceptichum
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          8 months ago

          Okay so if this guy can be confined genocide is a bad idea, when exactly is that going to happen?

          I didn’t think it was so challenging, but I guess Biden really struggles with this choice?

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          You don’t win votes by convincing people the other guy’s worse. Full stop.

          Stop celebrating Democrats making TERRIBLE political moves by failing to condemn terrible political moves…

          • Optional@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Don’t be stupid. Trump is going to demand they nuke and pave Palestine and he’ll open a string of Trump resorts for free as his reward. Think that’s unlikely? Please. We’ve got a ton of receipts. He’s 1000 times worse than a Biden administration. So cut the GRU bullshit.

            If “Young Progressive Activists” were actually serious about stopping a millenia-old conflict on the other side of the world, the point of entry is their representative and senator. Do they even know who that is? Representatives pass legislation to require (cease-fire, aid, reparations, whatever) or no more money. That’s what they say they actually want.

            Magical Santa President is a child’s cartoon. And the conversation of this constant BiDeN gEnOcIdE train is a sad hEr EmAiLs argument in design and purpose.

          • Kecessa
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            8 months ago

            And you don’t improve things by letting the worst option take power by your inaction.

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              No one has said they wouldn’t vote against Trump. Why do you assume every vote has to be FOR Biden?

              Not every vote has to come with an ass kissing, you sycophantic dipshits.

              • Kecessa
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                8 months ago

                When did the USA adopt a system where voting independent or third party when you lean left has any influence and prevents the Republicans from taking power? Unless you were planning to vote Republican and will vote for someone else?

                • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  How is it so confusing to understand that someone can still vote for Biden while not wanting to vote for Biden?

                  You’re all literally too simple to understand how personal morals work, apparently. Sad.

                  • Kecessa
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                    8 months ago

                    No, it’s your phrase that didn’t make sense as you said not voting for Trump while also not voting for Biden, learn to express yourself clearly and then start sharing your opinion.

          • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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            8 months ago

            convincing people the other guy’s worse.

            At its heart, voting is choosing the least-worse option.

            Our best case is being able to repeat this until the criminally-bad options are gone and we only have good options to choose from, but while life expectancy and objective happiness is far, far below what it should be for such a rich nation, you know we have some heavy evolution ahead.

            • dvoraqs@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Voting in a First Past the Post election system is like this. If we can switch to another system like the Single Transferrable Vote, we can get better results.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          If Biden doesn’t want to lose the votes of people who oppose genocide, he should stop supporting genocide.

          Of course, he should also stop supporting genocide because it’s genocide. But I guess he’d rather lose than miss out on being a part of it.

          • Kecessa
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            8 months ago

            And not voting ends up being support for more genocide

            Just as I said, your logic works in a situation where either options are reasonable OR, I would add, if there’s more than two options and governments are made of coalitions so you can vote for someone that will influence the party with the most vote to move in the direction that you want so they can form the government.

            Neither options apply to the USA at the moment.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              And not voting ends up being support for more genocide

              I’m voting for Biden. I also know that if he wants the votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker, he needs to stop supporting genocide.

              • Kecessa
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                8 months ago

                These people would be hypocrites if they didn’t vote for him as letting Trump win means more genocide as he’ll do nothing about Gaza and leave Ukraine to fend for itself whereas a Democrat can at least be convinced to change his stance.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Ok. So they’re hypocrites.

                  If Biden wants their votes, he needs to break with the pro-genocide centrist wing of his party and stop supporting genocide. I know this will bitterly disappoint every last centrist Democrat, but you can lecture them that they can’t always get everything they want and that they need to vote blue no matter who.

                  • Kecessa
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                    8 months ago

                    Then these people have no right to complain when things get worse.

      • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        You think preventing this country from turning into a dictatorship that is planning to commit genocide on LGBTQs and women her is a low bar?

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          You think supporting genocide is acceptable as long as it’s brown people in another country?

          • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I think destroying this country, eliminates any possibility of stopping genocide anywhere else. But you seem intent on supporting genocide everywhere…

              • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                By helping Trump get elected and ensuring the continued and escalation of genocide both in the middle east and here.

                Hmm.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  You can’t defend Biden’s support for genocide, so you pretend everyone who opposes genocide is a trump supporter.

                  • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I support the best chance for stopping/preventing genocide both in the middle east and here.

                    You don’t, it’s very simple.

        • Deceptichum
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          8 months ago

          You’re right, the PotUS is a completely powerless position, Biden literally can’t do anything! He’s forced to put support bills offering aid to Israel, to fast track weapons to Israel ignoring congress, to have his Secretary of State protect Israel in the UN.

          The President is such a completely powerless position, right?

          • Nudding@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            He actually structured the deals in a way that they didn’t meet the minimum dollar amount for congressional oversight, which is mind bendingly illegal.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          He doesn’t have to continue selling them weapons. He doesn’t have to keep running interference for them at the UN.

          You should stop making excuses for Biden’s support for genocide.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I forgot he decides that in all in a magical bubble!

              Biden did not need to circumvent congress to sell Netanyahu weapons that he knew would be used for genocide. No one would have blamed him if he didn’t, and no one was clamoring for it.

              Apart from you and Netanyahu, who would have been disappointed if Biden’s administration hadn’t abused the US’ permanent veto on Netanyahu’s behalf?

              We know what it’s costing Biden. What would not doing it have cost him?

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      You can’t defend Biden’s support for genocide, so you have to accuse people who oppose genocide of being Trumpists.

      Of course, you could just say that Biden should stop supporting genocide, but I doubt that you want him to.

      • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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        8 months ago

        You could also stop pretending Joe Biden is a supporter of genocide, but you won’t.

        If you truly believe a genocide is happening to the Palestinian people, bullying democrats out of voting for Biden does nothing to help the Palestinian people.

        If you want to support the Palestinian people than you should engage in the democratic process and get the democrats to force Israel into a cease fire and lay the groundwork for two states.

        Oh wait, that’s what’s happening already.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          You could also stop pretending Joe Biden is a supporter of genocide, but you won’t.

          If Biden stops supporting genocide, I’ll stop saying it.

          If you truly believe a genocide is happening to the Palestinian people, bullying democrats out of voting for Biden does nothing to help the Palestinian people.

          It’s a good thing I’m not doing that. I’m saying that Biden needs to stop supporting genocide.

          He hasn’t stopped selling them weapons. He’s still running interference for them at the UN. That’s support.

          • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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            8 months ago

            The US has treaties with Israel that to the best of my knowledge Biden can’t just unilaterally end without repurcussion.

            The opposition (Trump) has called for Israel to finish the job.

            So if you want to character ize the guy with the stance of a 2 state solution as being the genocidal option, go ahead, but it’s just so ridiculously naive.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              The US has treaties with Israel that to the best of my knowledge Biden can’t just unilaterally end without repurcussion.

              None of those treaties require him to circumvent congress to sell weapons for genocide. None of them require him to run interference for Netanyahu at the UN.

              The opposition (Trump) has called for Israel to finish the job.

              And as always, if anyone is in any way critical of Biden’s support for genocide, it’s because they must be a Trumpist.

              So if you want to character ize the guy with the stance of a 2 state solution as being the genocidal option, go ahead, but it’s just so ridiculously naive.

              Both of them support genocide. I want Biden to stop. I doubt you do.

              • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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                8 months ago

                What does a 2 state solution mean? It means the Palestinian people weren’t genocided.

                Do you not get that? Because if you don’t, this situation is clearly more complex than you ever begun to realize.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  What does a 2 state solution mean?

                  In this context, about as much as anything else Biden says he supports and doesn’t back up with actions.

                  Do you not get that?

                  I get what Biden’s stated position is. His actions say the opposite.

                  • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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                    8 months ago

                    Which specific actions?

                    Aiding an ally in time of war as per the treaties while working towards a ceasefire and two state solution?

                    Not only do you guys want Biden to be a war time president, but you specifically want him to wage war against Israel, and then you guys get offended when its pointed that the only people in the world this would benefit is Russia and Qatar/Iran.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Joe Bide directly supports Israel. Israel is openly committing genocide. If you think Joe is NOT supporting genocide, you are literally so stupid as to fail to observe ONE DEGREE of separation. You are too stupid for this discussion, full stop.

          • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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            8 months ago

            This is the issue pointed out right here.

            All you people full stop claiming genocide aren’t doing anything for the Palestinian people, you are just bullying people you suspect are Joe Biden supporters and telling them to exit the discussion.

            I hate to say its coordinated, but I haven’t ever seen more coordinated behavior in an online community before.

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I’m doing a hell of a lot more than Joe Biden simply by not handing Israel bilions in weapons.

              I love how all you fucking morons pretend I have ANY obligation like the fucking PRESIDENT has. Stop expecting more of random citizens than you expect of the PRESIDENT. It’s beyond pathetic. Stop being so pathetic.

              • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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                8 months ago

                I’m just saying, the Palestinian people need a lot more from you than specifically waging a propaganda war against Democratic voters.

                There are charities you could donate your time or money to, there are think tanks with the ear of the president who you could reach out to.

                I don’t even agree with your usage of the term genocide, but feel like I have done more to help the Palestinian people through my own contributions.

                That to me says something.

                • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  So you’re just assuming I do nothing otherwise?

                  Again, stop being so pathetic. You still expect more from citizens than the president. Stop being such a joke.

                  • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
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                    8 months ago

                    I am sorry to assume you did nothing. I assume you have gone and marched with previously doxxed neo Nazis in the city nearest you under the guise that this is a pro-Palestine movement and not an anti-Biden one.

                    If you had any tactic but bullying leftists who disagreed with you, you would have used it already.

                    Bye, babe.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          It’s going to be such a fantastic 4 years with Donnie after watching D’s tear themselves apart ignoring Biden being great and just being completely unrealistic and unreasonable with reality.

          Right here.