Honestly I have mixed feelings on these guys. Like, sure, they absolutely did need to be jailed, because trying to overturn an election is extremely dangerous for the country and one cant set the precedent that one can get away with attempting it, but at the same time, these people were lied to, and if the things that they had been led to believe about the election being stolen had actually been true, I cant help but think that something like what was done might have been justified. It feels kinda messed up, then, that the people who had been led into this with misplaced trust and false promises are the ones getting the bulk of the punishment, and not the people who sold them on lies in the first place.
I understand that the kind of people that fall for this stuff tend to be horrible in other ways, don’t get me wrong, but I guess I still find it hard not to find some amount of sympathy for anyone, even if I find them detestable. People aren’t born being bigoted, and while it’s absolutely understandable to hate people for thinking and acting that way, I certainly do myself, I’m not sure to what extent I can really see it being a choice. Like, what kind of person, who both understood what bigotry was and was not already in the grip of it, would actively choose it? I feel like those kinds of views are something one is taught, and once taught are difficult to unteach, because part of what they are involves suspicion against anyone that has a contrary message. Like the concept of garbage in ->garbage out that people use with computers, but applied to people instead.
Okay, but I was one of those bigots years ago, and surrounded by others that were the same way. I made the choice to listen to others and open my mind to other lines of reasoning. I educated myself, realized I was wrong, and changed as a person.
Being stuck in that place is no excuse. Everyone has the choice to listen to others, and if you actually listen to others, you will realize that their views and beliefs are wrong.
If I could be stuck in the middle of Texas in a hyper-conservative family, with conservative friends, immersed in that culture, and come out of it… So can they.
So no, I do not have any sympathy. They made their choice. And not only did they make their choice, they decided to triple-down and become violent extremists.
Making the decision to talk to other people with differing views and actually open myself to listening
That’s literally it. I made the choice to immerse myself in a diverse community and have conversations with differently minded people, and actually heard them out.
So, basically, the willingness to admit that maybe you were wrong, and willing to be convinced of that with adequate proof. Sounds like somewhere along the way you were exposed to critical thinking and/or open-mindedness.
Yes, it’s not something that accidentally happens to ingest that much bullshit and take it at face value. There are other TV channels, websites, and people to talk to. By the time you’re storming the US capitol building, you have made several intentional choices that put you in that position.
People that can’t identify the propaganda they are consuming is morally reprehensible are morally reprehensible. It appeals to their deepest feelings. Fuck this guy and fuck all these fascists ruining our world.
It feels kinda messed up, then, that the people who had been led into this with misplaced trust and false promises are the ones getting the bulk of the punishment, and not the people who sold them on lies in the first place.
I agree. Altho not in the sense that these people are being handed unfair judgement, they’ve all got off extremely light for the acts they committed. But it is a travesty of justice that the ones instigating it have received little to no punishment.
These people gobbled the propaganda up because it justified their bigotry. So my sympathies are limited.
I will, however, agree with you that it is a travesty that the ones feeding people misinformation and hate aren’t the ones being tried and convicted. The instigators are the biggest criminals, and should be taken down
Right, and if lizard people did secretly rule the world, then maybe the rational answer would be their racist conspiracy wank. If they are controlling the media, we must attack 5G towers!
But it’s fucking nonsense.
They’re just gullible assholes who fell for complete bullshit. There is no excuse for them not knowing better. They did awful things for stupid reasons. Do not fool yourself into feeling bad for them, as if they had sensible belief in any of The Idiot’s seventeen contradictory narratives promoting basic-bitch fascism.
This is how history works. The victors determine how the story is told. If these guys had been successful rest assured no matter how wrong they were they would have painted themselves heros.
But I get your point. Unfortunately idiocy isn’t a solid defense for treason.
Honestly I have mixed feelings on these guys. Like, sure, they absolutely did need to be jailed, because trying to overturn an election is extremely dangerous for the country and one cant set the precedent that one can get away with attempting it, but at the same time, these people were lied to, and if the things that they had been led to believe about the election being stolen had actually been true, I cant help but think that something like what was done might have been justified. It feels kinda messed up, then, that the people who had been led into this with misplaced trust and false promises are the ones getting the bulk of the punishment, and not the people who sold them on lies in the first place.
These are also the same types of people who hate people of color and queer folk simply for existing.
They made their choice, and their choice was hatred and willful ignorance. I have zero sympathy.
I have sympathy for the ones who also believe in broad spectrum prison reform.
Oh, that’s none of them?
Okay then.
I understand that the kind of people that fall for this stuff tend to be horrible in other ways, don’t get me wrong, but I guess I still find it hard not to find some amount of sympathy for anyone, even if I find them detestable. People aren’t born being bigoted, and while it’s absolutely understandable to hate people for thinking and acting that way, I certainly do myself, I’m not sure to what extent I can really see it being a choice. Like, what kind of person, who both understood what bigotry was and was not already in the grip of it, would actively choose it? I feel like those kinds of views are something one is taught, and once taught are difficult to unteach, because part of what they are involves suspicion against anyone that has a contrary message. Like the concept of garbage in ->garbage out that people use with computers, but applied to people instead.
Okay, but I was one of those bigots years ago, and surrounded by others that were the same way. I made the choice to listen to others and open my mind to other lines of reasoning. I educated myself, realized I was wrong, and changed as a person.
Being stuck in that place is no excuse. Everyone has the choice to listen to others, and if you actually listen to others, you will realize that their views and beliefs are wrong.
If I could be stuck in the middle of Texas in a hyper-conservative family, with conservative friends, immersed in that culture, and come out of it… So can they.
So no, I do not have any sympathy. They made their choice. And not only did they make their choice, they decided to triple-down and become violent extremists.
Fuck them, they deserve what they got.
What led you to start opening up and changing your mind?
Making the decision to talk to other people with differing views and actually open myself to listening
That’s literally it. I made the choice to immerse myself in a diverse community and have conversations with differently minded people, and actually heard them out.
So, basically, the willingness to admit that maybe you were wrong, and willing to be convinced of that with adequate proof. Sounds like somewhere along the way you were exposed to critical thinking and/or open-mindedness.
The “choice” of being fed propaganda 24/7? EDIT: y’all would be so easily brainwashed istg
Yes, it’s not something that accidentally happens to ingest that much bullshit and take it at face value. There are other TV channels, websites, and people to talk to. By the time you’re storming the US capitol building, you have made several intentional choices that put you in that position.
“Accidentally” is exactly how ingesting misinformation happens.
It’s their own fault for not fact-checking.
If you take everything at face-value, you’re either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.
I mean, they could have turned their TVs and radios off. Or hell, they could have just changed the channel.
People that can’t identify the propaganda they are consuming is morally reprehensible are morally reprehensible. It appeals to their deepest feelings. Fuck this guy and fuck all these fascists ruining our world.
I you believe hateful rhetoric is true, then you are a hateful person. So they deserve what they get.
I had sympathy once, too.
Watching my wife cry while republicans try to outlaw her medication and access to a fucking bathroom took it all
I agree. Altho not in the sense that these people are being handed unfair judgement, they’ve all got off extremely light for the acts they committed. But it is a travesty of justice that the ones instigating it have received little to no punishment.
These people gobbled the propaganda up because it justified their bigotry. So my sympathies are limited.
I’d be more sympathetic if the lies weren’t coming from the most obvious con-man in history.
Whaaaaaat? But he’s so trustworthy? He even passed that mental competency test that sounds like my toddler’s puzzles!
They were lied to, but they chose to believe those lies. Wilful ignorance isn’t an excuse.
I will, however, agree with you that it is a travesty that the ones feeding people misinformation and hate aren’t the ones being tried and convicted. The instigators are the biggest criminals, and should be taken down
Right, and if lizard people did secretly rule the world, then maybe the rational answer would be their racist conspiracy wank. If they are controlling the media, we must attack 5G towers!
But it’s fucking nonsense.
They’re just gullible assholes who fell for complete bullshit. There is no excuse for them not knowing better. They did awful things for stupid reasons. Do not fool yourself into feeling bad for them, as if they had sensible belief in any of The Idiot’s seventeen contradictory narratives promoting basic-bitch fascism.
This is how history works. The victors determine how the story is told. If these guys had been successful rest assured no matter how wrong they were they would have painted themselves heros.
But I get your point. Unfortunately idiocy isn’t a solid defense for treason.