If he doesn’t win election, I want his stans to remember this and understand that he threw it. He, or at least his staff, must know what a historically unpopular policy this is.
The dems clearly aren’t as excited about beating Trump as their voters are.
They’ll just blame the voters, like they already do.
The Dems have invested everything into Biden so they can’t change their ship, and the stans can’t admit there is any flaws, so it must be everyone else that is wrong.
I don’t know where you guys see it, but I never see any stans for Biden who can’t admit his flaws like we see with Trump supporters. The only support I see for Biden is for the general election, not for him or his policies overall. I only see people being critical of Biden but saying we need to vote for him anyway. As bad as it is, there is no Palestine with Trump, there’s possibly no democracy with Trump, there’s only likely a lot of suffering for the regular people with Trump.
I see it everywhere. I’d name drop but can’t “attack the user” in this community or whatever the rule is.
It’s almost at maga levels with these people. Any criticism of Biden is met with “Why do you want Trump to win”, “Bidens policies have been so good but no one knows about them”, or “The president can’t just do things”. I always see zero willingness to admit his huge flaws and only deflection.
Sometimes we hold our nose and vote. Because the alternative is so deeply problematic our moral judgement of one is dwarfed by the moral and practical horror of the other.
Not voting against Trump is enabling even more genocide and the end of some women and minority rights so don’t pretend like you’ve got the moral high ground if your refuse to vote because of the Democrats stance on Israel.
They absolutely have the moral highground. Fuck a president that enables genocide and funds it. Saying “oh don’t be a single issue voter!” when the issue is “stop mass killings of people with a single phone call” is so out of this world, it’s just insane.
If literal genocide cannot convince liberals to consider third parties, then I’m convinced they will never support third parties. This is the duopolies Sandy Hook moment. If you see Genocide A or Genocide B and don’t seek a third option, you will never seek a third option.
Sure but that third party doesn’t exist so you knowingly letting an even worse option win thus enabling even more genocide just shows you didn’t really care about genocides in the first place
The Democrats problem is that while they might pass legislation with some foresight or even just fund things, none of it fucking matters if everyone feels broke all the time. Fighting for the status quo is a losing proposition because this shit sucks. Fighting for the status quo just means another 4 years of corporate minmaxing existence into a no-net trapeze subscription service. No one wants what we have now, but sure, lets trust the fuckers who made this to fix it, right? And sure, that’s not that fault of these politicians per se, but when politicians are obviously bought out by corporations (who have zero regard for the public well-being) then that makes politicians the face of the corporatocracy, and as deserving of the anger as the every sycophantic C-suite - which is ALL of them .
I want a new army of auditors, matching the size of our armed forces. You break into the 1% and want to do any business in America? Here’s your personal IRS agent, who’s monitored remotely and anonymously by 2 more Agents. Idgaf if you’re a foreign national, you want to do business in America? Thems the breaks. That simple.
You want a corporate business license? Here’s your IRS platoon.
The best part? With how corrupt things have gotten, we already KNOW they’ll claw enough back to pay for themselves, and then some.
Get caught cheating the tax code? Lose everything you own, then prison. Pull an Enron and rob 1000s of people of their retirement? Death by crowbar. Cheap and reusable. $0 wasted further on you.
Any person or business that pays $0 in taxes deserves 0 of the protections afforded by government. Including forfeiture of patents to the public domain.
But let’s play devil’s advocate. Let’s look at corporations in the same vein our bullshit Supreme Court likes to use, Originalism. The framers of the constitution deemed corporations legal only under the framework that it was temporary to accomplish a public good, to the tune of building a bridge, or a sewer system, then immediately dissolved. Let’s go back to THAT and hold everyone accountable to everyone else again, because all humanity needs to become fucking monsters is immunity from accountability. That’s something we can NEVER let stand.
Ok, those aren’t the same thing as supporting him. I will admit I don’t care for his policies, but they have been better than I expected, which is something. Also, yeah the president doesn’t have the power to do that much alone. It requires congress to play a role, which the democrats don’t have enough control in to do. Those are extremely valid things to say, and you can say them while still being critical of Biden. It sounds like you want people to only be critical of him, which is just as bad as only supporting him. We need to understand there’s more beyond the one man or we will fail.
Saying they’re amazing is, but that’s not what you said they said.
Defending can be, but it isn’t necessarily. I’ll defend a lot of people or things that people are attacking for no reason. That said, defending someone from a legitimate critique is usually done out of support, but still sometimes it’s done out of a feeling of necessity.
Media ratings too. Every single outlet that plays on TV would love a Trump victory because it makes people pay attention who would otherwise not watch any news.
Dems lose, blame voters, move rightward, repeat. At some point they themselves will be fascists and their supporters will urge everyone to vote for the ‘softer’ fascist. They see no issue in continuing this cycle and pledging their votes with no conditions or red lines, exactly like how Biden funds Israel. Why expect them to do what you want if youve signaled you’ll never leave their side?
We all fully understand that. Well, most intelligent enough people do. Sure, there are some very vocal leftists calling for a boycott to the vote (as is the custom, so nothing new), but most of us know—even with leftist views—that we need to keep trump away from office. We will all just pull the lever for Biden because we have no other choice. It’s a shitty, unappealing and massively problematic choice. But we all know trump will be 10x worse on everything we have a problem with Biden doing. Not to mention, all the trans people, gay people, etc.
But that doesn’t equate to enthusiastic support for Biden. Because we all disapprove. Doesn’t mean we all don’t realize we have to vote for him. We’re just not democrats or Biden fans, so we complain.
But the other side of that coin is that this kind of shit will stop a not insignificant portion of people from voting for him, not understanding what another trump presidency means. Because there are a lot of performative leftists who think holding up an “well I didn’t vote for him” badge is something to be proud of…while LGBTQIA+ people are pushed back into the shadows, sent to conversion therapy, can’t get healthcare, etc. Doing shit like this will turn those people off. And it’s understandable—in a way. Because how can you justify lending your support to someone supporting genocide? Is it really noble to vote blue while they actively aid in the slaughter of Palestinians? Or while they treat immigrants like shit or keep arming police departments to the teeth with war machines and keep passing pro-surveillance laws and working with private equity and participating in every corporatist neoliberal tradition that sickens us all?
Well, it’s the basic concept of harm reduction. Not voting doesn’t help anyone but the non-voter because they get to hop on that high horse any time something goes wrong. It’s an insanely privileged choice, and actually will end up hurting a lot of people if trump wins. That’s the opposite of harm reduction. For example, making drugs legal and handing out free, clean needles, you’re technically supporting people’s destructive addictions. But you’re reducing the harm that inevitable presence of addiction can bring. It’s a good thing to do.
Even if it makes us sick to vote for Biden, neglecting to keep trump from the levers of power is so insanely self-destructive and harmful to vulnerable people and maybe even literally a mistake we will never, ever right. We have a desperate climate emergency on our hands. Four years (if we can actually get him out of office after that) of trump climate policy will literally kill us all.
I love how I called out that you absolute shitheels love blaming everyone else when the dems trip on their own dicks and hand victory to someone like Trump, and your immediate reaction is to blame me for pointing it out.
Do you understand what’s happening here? Are you able to look at your own behaviour? Did you even understand what I said?
If he doesn’t win election, I want his stans to remember this and understand that he threw it. He, or at least his staff, must know what a historically unpopular policy this is.
The dems clearly aren’t as excited about beating Trump as their voters are.
They’ll just blame the voters, like they already do.
The Dems have invested everything into Biden so they can’t change their ship, and the stans can’t admit there is any flaws, so it must be everyone else that is wrong.
I don’t know where you guys see it, but I never see any stans for Biden who can’t admit his flaws like we see with Trump supporters. The only support I see for Biden is for the general election, not for him or his policies overall. I only see people being critical of Biden but saying we need to vote for him anyway. As bad as it is, there is no Palestine with Trump, there’s possibly no democracy with Trump, there’s only likely a lot of suffering for the regular people with Trump.
I see it everywhere. I’d name drop but can’t “attack the user” in this community or whatever the rule is.
It’s almost at maga levels with these people. Any criticism of Biden is met with “Why do you want Trump to win”, “Bidens policies have been so good but no one knows about them”, or “The president can’t just do things”. I always see zero willingness to admit his huge flaws and only deflection.
Sometimes we hold our nose and vote. Because the alternative is so deeply problematic our moral judgement of one is dwarfed by the moral and practical horror of the other.
We did that already.
NULL
Because literal Genocide isn’t “deeply problematic”.
It would be happening in more places, more aggressively with a President Trump.
Sometimes we don’t make excuses for enabling genocide, but I guess that moral and practical horror is a-okay to some.
Not voting against Trump is enabling even more genocide and the end of some women and minority rights so don’t pretend like you’ve got the moral high ground if your refuse to vote because of the Democrats stance on Israel.
They absolutely have the moral highground. Fuck a president that enables genocide and funds it. Saying “oh don’t be a single issue voter!” when the issue is “stop mass killings of people with a single phone call” is so out of this world, it’s just insane.
Time for a third party, plain and simple.
If literal genocide cannot convince liberals to consider third parties, then I’m convinced they will never support third parties. This is the duopolies Sandy Hook moment. If you see Genocide A or Genocide B and don’t seek a third option, you will never seek a third option.
Sure but that third party doesn’t exist so you knowingly letting an even worse option win thus enabling even more genocide just shows you didn’t really care about genocides in the first place
The Democrats problem is that while they might pass legislation with some foresight or even just fund things, none of it fucking matters if everyone feels broke all the time. Fighting for the status quo is a losing proposition because this shit sucks. Fighting for the status quo just means another 4 years of corporate minmaxing existence into a no-net trapeze subscription service. No one wants what we have now, but sure, lets trust the fuckers who made this to fix it, right? And sure, that’s not that fault of these politicians per se, but when politicians are obviously bought out by corporations (who have zero regard for the public well-being) then that makes politicians the face of the corporatocracy, and as deserving of the anger as the every sycophantic C-suite - which is ALL of them .
I want a new army of auditors, matching the size of our armed forces. You break into the 1% and want to do any business in America? Here’s your personal IRS agent, who’s monitored remotely and anonymously by 2 more Agents. Idgaf if you’re a foreign national, you want to do business in America? Thems the breaks. That simple.
You want a corporate business license? Here’s your IRS platoon.
The best part? With how corrupt things have gotten, we already KNOW they’ll claw enough back to pay for themselves, and then some.
Get caught cheating the tax code? Lose everything you own, then prison. Pull an Enron and rob 1000s of people of their retirement? Death by crowbar. Cheap and reusable. $0 wasted further on you.
Any person or business that pays $0 in taxes deserves 0 of the protections afforded by government. Including forfeiture of patents to the public domain.
But let’s play devil’s advocate. Let’s look at corporations in the same vein our bullshit Supreme Court likes to use, Originalism. The framers of the constitution deemed corporations legal only under the framework that it was temporary to accomplish a public good, to the tune of building a bridge, or a sewer system, then immediately dissolved. Let’s go back to THAT and hold everyone accountable to everyone else again, because all humanity needs to become fucking monsters is immunity from accountability. That’s something we can NEVER let stand.
Ok, those aren’t the same thing as supporting him. I will admit I don’t care for his policies, but they have been better than I expected, which is something. Also, yeah the president doesn’t have the power to do that much alone. It requires congress to play a role, which the democrats don’t have enough control in to do. Those are extremely valid things to say, and you can say them while still being critical of Biden. It sounds like you want people to only be critical of him, which is just as bad as only supporting him. We need to understand there’s more beyond the one man or we will fail.
I’m sorry, but defending someone from criticism and saying their policies are super amazing isn’t supporting them?
Saying they’re amazing is, but that’s not what you said they said.
Defending can be, but it isn’t necessarily. I’ll defend a lot of people or things that people are attacking for no reason. That said, defending someone from a legitimate critique is usually done out of support, but still sometimes it’s done out of a feeling of necessity.
I’ve seen it all over the place. Usually in the form of the narcissist’s prayer too.
Well, trump was the best thing to happen to democratic fundraising ever. So. They have an incentive to see him win.
Media ratings too. Every single outlet that plays on TV would love a Trump victory because it makes people pay attention who would otherwise not watch any news.
Removed by mod
Yeah, no. Israel doesn’t equal Jewish people.
If the dems lose this, and they probably will, they’ll pull out their usual playbook and blame everyone but themselves.
Dems lose, blame voters, move rightward, repeat. At some point they themselves will be fascists and their supporters will urge everyone to vote for the ‘softer’ fascist. They see no issue in continuing this cycle and pledging their votes with no conditions or red lines, exactly like how Biden funds Israel. Why expect them to do what you want if youve signaled you’ll never leave their side?
If only we voted for a party that didn’t abuse us like this.
And then will you be happy when Trump doubles the Israel fund and starts arming Russia against Ukraine?
We all fully understand that. Well, most intelligent enough people do. Sure, there are some very vocal leftists calling for a boycott to the vote (as is the custom, so nothing new), but most of us know—even with leftist views—that we need to keep trump away from office. We will all just pull the lever for Biden because we have no other choice. It’s a shitty, unappealing and massively problematic choice. But we all know trump will be 10x worse on everything we have a problem with Biden doing. Not to mention, all the trans people, gay people, etc.
But that doesn’t equate to enthusiastic support for Biden. Because we all disapprove. Doesn’t mean we all don’t realize we have to vote for him. We’re just not democrats or Biden fans, so we complain.
But the other side of that coin is that this kind of shit will stop a not insignificant portion of people from voting for him, not understanding what another trump presidency means. Because there are a lot of performative leftists who think holding up an “well I didn’t vote for him” badge is something to be proud of…while LGBTQIA+ people are pushed back into the shadows, sent to conversion therapy, can’t get healthcare, etc. Doing shit like this will turn those people off. And it’s understandable—in a way. Because how can you justify lending your support to someone supporting genocide? Is it really noble to vote blue while they actively aid in the slaughter of Palestinians? Or while they treat immigrants like shit or keep arming police departments to the teeth with war machines and keep passing pro-surveillance laws and working with private equity and participating in every corporatist neoliberal tradition that sickens us all?
Well, it’s the basic concept of harm reduction. Not voting doesn’t help anyone but the non-voter because they get to hop on that high horse any time something goes wrong. It’s an insanely privileged choice, and actually will end up hurting a lot of people if trump wins. That’s the opposite of harm reduction. For example, making drugs legal and handing out free, clean needles, you’re technically supporting people’s destructive addictions. But you’re reducing the harm that inevitable presence of addiction can bring. It’s a good thing to do.
Even if it makes us sick to vote for Biden, neglecting to keep trump from the levers of power is so insanely self-destructive and harmful to vulnerable people and maybe even literally a mistake we will never, ever right. We have a desperate climate emergency on our hands. Four years (if we can actually get him out of office after that) of trump climate policy will literally kill us all.
I love how I called out that you absolute shitheels love blaming everyone else when the dems trip on their own dicks and hand victory to someone like Trump, and your immediate reaction is to blame me for pointing it out.
Do you understand what’s happening here? Are you able to look at your own behaviour? Did you even understand what I said?