I apparently think about it more critically than you do. All journalism is not propaganda; some is good in fact, and we can determine which is good and which is bad. And I at least have sources, whereas you have, uh… brain damage I guess?
Also that’s a laughable and total misunderstanding of Voice of America’s history, mission, and goals. It has a reputation basically everywhere as being as close to objective and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC. I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name, which is not great on the critical thinking front!
A statutory corporation is a government entity created as a statutory body by statute.
It doesn’t matter what language you try to couch it in, “state funded”, “editorial independence”, whatever. It was founded by the state, is funded by the state, and is a government entity. If it quacks like a duck.
As a brit, it absolutely is state-run in every way except the technicallity of the employees not being government workers and having a semi-indepdent structure, it is undeniably linked to the british government by nature, history, and practicality.
It absolutely is not state-run; VOA and RT are and the BBC is not. Obviously it’s not totally cut and dry but to claim it’s state run is simply a misunderstanding of its history and charter. As I said earlier, words actually mean something.
Suggesting I have Brain Damage and then doubling down on your argument that VOA is as good as another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation with a history of imperialism, colonialism, and a bunch of other atrocities. I’m not sure if you think you’re convincing me or anyone beyond your echo chamber of anything or just like to read your own words as reaffirmation of your own beliefs. Either way it’s useless.
Oh sorry, read the first paragraph on that page. You don’t need to read anything else. Usually when someone shares a link I read the first few sentences if there’s no further explanation.
Voice of America (VOA) is the largest U.S. international broadcaster, providing news and information in more than 40 languages to an estimated weekly audience of more than 326 million people. VOA produces content for digital, television, and radio platforms. It is easily accessed via your mobile phone and on social media. It is also distributed by satellite, cable, FM and MW, and is carried on a network of more than 3,500 affiliate stations.
That’s the first paragraph. What are you talking about?
Why would the government support one of its own appendages acting for decades against its own interest in public reporting? Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs? Because all I see on the front page right now is speculation on what Russia “Could Be Preparing”, talking about how China’s “Dismal Foreign Minister Reflects Turmoil”, one about “Chinese Spy Ships” oh and the Chinese economy “Facing New Difficulties,” along with a Russia/DPRK story. idk, it seems to toe the line pretty strictly.
I can give it the most marginal credit in terms of headlines for a few articles down the page
I’m surprised they aren’t more defensive of DPP, but then reading the article I see that the angle is apparently attacking the KMT and taking the new third party, the TPP, as a viable alternative that is still generally following western interests and hilariously promises to promote a “color revolution” in Taiwan along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for. TPP seems most in line with the “de-risking” line favored by the Biden administration rather than the more extreme “delinking” or the left wing “actual diplomatic engagement”.
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner, let’s see how it opens:
PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA — Cambodian officials say renovation work on a naval base in the coastal city of Sihanoukville is nearly complete, but U.S. officials have voiced suspicions the facility, being upgraded by China, will be used exclusively by China’s military.
Suspicions about China’s intentions for the Ream naval base were raised after satellite imagery showed that a major pier capable of anchoring aircraft carriers had been constructed on the site.
There we are. The rest is slightly softer but continues a tone of fearmongering.
Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs?
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner,
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
but continues a tone of fearmongering.
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
That’s really the point of what people are arguing, that these are interested parties that clearly promote certain agendas pertaining to respective national interests. If you agree, then that’s most of the meaningful discussion concluded, imo.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
I am unimpressed. You are making the very common mistake of “critical of any individual or group within the US” being the same as “critical of the US”. I can point you to a thousand stories of Orange Man Bad (a large portion of which are correct, albeit meaningless, for the record) from CNN or MSNBC, but that is because what they are doing is partisan reporting from within the frame of Republican vs Democrat politics. That the Dem-aligned outlets say the Republicans are bad and the reverse does not mean they are in any meaningful sense criticizing the US. In fact, this can easily result in whitewashing the US, as happened constantly under Trump, whether it was rehabilitating the war criminal Bush or indeed pretending VoA used to be impartial, a huge portion of these attacks rest on a framework that the object of criticism does not represent the agenda of the US and what its systems seek to preserve but is instead a rogue, an infection, or in some other manner foreign to or against those interests.
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
It’s media criticism, and what I had to say was mostly regarding the overall argumentative arc of the article rather than trying to hit on small details out of context. Is my assessment at all incorrect? Obviously I included a sardonic joke about diplomacy being communist, but besides that.
Also, I’m not a fucking journo! I’m not pretending to be reporting on international news for the pure sake of keeping my audience informed on political developments, I’m just some asshole commenting. I also, unlike that journo, have a significant hostile audience that I am writing in the context of. That guy doesn’t give a shit what China thinks of what he is writing. Your comparison is apples to oranges.
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
Did you not see the five or so headlines that made up basically the entire front page? I talked about those first to establish a baseline (there was one neutral one and one on basketball that I left out).
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
This is an anemic argument and you show that you know it. No, it’s not stormfront, but that’s because it has an extremely different audience and a different set of liabilities than stormfront (and obviously a neoliberal ideology rather than a Nazi one). If you thought the argument you were saying was worth anything, then I can just say “What’s your issue with Fox? OANN is way further out there. What’s your issue with OANN? Breitbart is way further out there. What’s your problem with Breitbart? It’s a little edgy but nothing like the unhinged rants at InfoWars. InfoWars? Please, they look like liberals compared to stormfront.”
These are different factions with different audiences, different styles, and different ideologies. Being able to point to something more vulgar is no defense, especially because – as others have stressed in this thread – that creates a huge, multi-layered bias towards establishment media relaying a centrist, neoliberal message! The place that happens to be America’s political center has no particular reason to correspond with what an informed and “impartial” observer would conclude except by cosmic coincidence, because the American center (as with any country’s political center) is historically arbitrary and constantly changing! We can’t just tacitly assume that the establishment ideologies are what are most reasonable and the fairness of all other things must be measured against that. It’s part of this myopia that I explained at the top of this comment about how people are so stuck in partisan shitflinging and those sorts of issues that they have no idea of what “impartial” could even mean! And I say this as someone who thinks there is no such thing as “unbiased,” that there are stronger framings for what is theoretically a pillar of your ideology, which I oppose, than what you have put forward.
You cannot escape your own perspective, your own circumstances and interests, but you can do a better job than you currently are of stepping outside of the bubble of Mainstream American Political Discourse and investigating what people from other countries not aligned with the US say, or even a more serious investigation of what fringes within America say.
Oh, and out of pure spite, I will inform you that NPR is a zionist rag that does nearly whatever the Democrats want. It’s laughable to call it unbiased, even if we pretend such a thing is real. They are partisan hacks and apologists for the neoliberal project with a progressive veneer faintly glossed overtop.
I don’t disagree with you about VOA not being 100% propaganda, but I think the thing that RT and VOA do share in common is that they are state-funded. With that being said, WaPo (just like the BBC) isn’t state funded so it’s still a poor comparison.
The BBC is quasi-state funded; its relationship with the government is not entirely cut-and-dry, since it is funded through a government act (though not directly by the UK itself).
What matters is whether the state has controls that prevent it from interfering with its media sources, and whether the those sources have missions respecting journalistic integrity. For the VOA and BBC this is entirely true, both have charters specifically mandating them to do that and their respective governments have very clear “hands-off” laws and policies (or did until Trump, the story does get a little complicated for the VOA recently).
RT on the other hand just publishes Putin’s marketing emails.
I added productive statements already; I’m still literally the only one in this thread that’s cited anything. Are you afraid of researching your stances and backing them up? Because there is a troll here, and it is not me.
I’ve written papers where I just cited the articles that supported my arguments and didn’t do a full analysis of the literature. It’s a common practice in academia. Logic is better at convincing people.
Well, your logic has been spectacularly unconvincing. And my continual exhortations for you to offer a single shred of evidence in support of your position have gone ignored, so… honestly my conclusion is you indeed have no evidence and no logic. Why are you even still replying if you have nothing to offer other than conspiracy theories and bad takes?
Ok, fine. Let’s operate under this assumption. Find me an article from the VoA that is critical of the current President.
I can find articles from the BBC that are extremely critical of Rishi Sunak (and Boris Johnson when he was still in office). I can find articles from the CBC that are extremely critical of Justin Trudeau (and old Stephen Harper). Any truly unbiased non-propaganda media outlet could surely find something to criticize about the ruling President, right?
Again, this isn’t about reporting facts that, by your opinion, look bad for Biden, but about political analysis (that VoA does do) that is negative for Biden.
For example, articles like “Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making” or “Why won’t Rishi Sunak give Partygate verdict on Boris Johnson?”, which has classic quotes like “‘Cowardly cop-out’” and “A scandal in plain sight”
An independent journalist agency has no problems making such claims. VoA does.
I think this is goalpost shifting frankly. I can find more articles on VoA that are critical of Biden. The fact that they don’t include sensationalized titles doesn’t mean they’re less critical.
Sure, go ahead. The article you sent is written by Associated Press, which is in fact an independent (American) not-for-profit and not funded by the US government. I would be a little more worried if they were, in fact, a government front.
I concede it’s a stretched argument but WaPo is known for hiring ex-State Department/ex-CIA staff onto its editorial board. I’m too lazy to find source but say something that gets me riled up and I’ll find the source out of spite.
I apparently think about it more critically than you do. All journalism is not propaganda; some is good in fact, and we can determine which is good and which is bad. And I at least have sources, whereas you have, uh… brain damage I guess?
Also that’s a laughable and total misunderstanding of Voice of America’s history, mission, and goals. It has a reputation basically everywhere as being as close to objective and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC. I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name, which is not great on the critical thinking front!
“Russian state owned media bad. British state owned media good.”
No, we know it’s bad because it’s literally run by the US government.
The BBC isn’t state-owned. I know facts and nuance are tough but I do mention this in another comment. Go read it, you might learn something!
It doesn’t matter what language you try to couch it in, “state funded”, “editorial independence”, whatever. It was founded by the state, is funded by the state, and is a government entity. If it quacks like a duck.
Couch it? What? You’re just wrong, it’s not state-run. Like words matter.
As a brit, it absolutely is state-run in every way except the technicallity of the employees not being government workers and having a semi-indepdent structure, it is undeniably linked to the british government by nature, history, and practicality.
It absolutely is not state-run; VOA and RT are and the BBC is not. Obviously it’s not totally cut and dry but to claim it’s state run is simply a misunderstanding of its history and charter. As I said earlier, words actually mean something.
Suggesting I have Brain Damage and then doubling down on your argument that VOA is as good as another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation with a history of imperialism, colonialism, and a bunch of other atrocities. I’m not sure if you think you’re convincing me or anyone beyond your echo chamber of anything or just like to read your own words as reaffirmation of your own beliefs. Either way it’s useless.
Cite reliable sources proving it’s “another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation” or at least give us a demostrable example.
https://www.insidevoa.com/p/5831.HTML
🤡
What about it? You can’t just link to a page with a thousand words on it and pretend that it all proves your point. Elaborate.
Oh sorry, read the first paragraph on that page. You don’t need to read anything else. Usually when someone shares a link I read the first few sentences if there’s no further explanation.
Voice of America (VOA) is the largest U.S. international broadcaster, providing news and information in more than 40 languages to an estimated weekly audience of more than 326 million people. VOA produces content for digital, television, and radio platforms. It is easily accessed via your mobile phone and on social media. It is also distributed by satellite, cable, FM and MW, and is carried on a network of more than 3,500 affiliate stations.
That’s the first paragraph. What are you talking about?
Whoops. My bad. Third paragraph.
Why would the government support one of its own appendages acting for decades against its own interest in public reporting? Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs? Because all I see on the front page right now is speculation on what Russia “Could Be Preparing”, talking about how China’s “Dismal Foreign Minister Reflects Turmoil”, one about “Chinese Spy Ships” oh and the Chinese economy “Facing New Difficulties,” along with a Russia/DPRK story. idk, it seems to toe the line pretty strictly.
I can give it the most marginal credit in terms of headlines for a few articles down the page
"As Taiwan Election Heats Up Young Voters Flock to Third-Party Candidate "
I’m surprised they aren’t more defensive of DPP, but then reading the article I see that the angle is apparently attacking the KMT and taking the new third party, the TPP, as a viable alternative that is still generally following western interests and hilariously promises to promote a “color revolution” in Taiwan along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for. TPP seems most in line with the “de-risking” line favored by the Biden administration rather than the more extreme “delinking” or the left wing “actual diplomatic engagement”.
"Cambodian Ream Naval Base Modernized by China Nears Completion: Defense Ministry "
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner, let’s see how it opens:
There we are. The rest is slightly softer but continues a tone of fearmongering.
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
That’s really the point of what people are arguing, that these are interested parties that clearly promote certain agendas pertaining to respective national interests. If you agree, then that’s most of the meaningful discussion concluded, imo.
I am unimpressed. You are making the very common mistake of “critical of any individual or group within the US” being the same as “critical of the US”. I can point you to a thousand stories of Orange Man Bad (a large portion of which are correct, albeit meaningless, for the record) from CNN or MSNBC, but that is because what they are doing is partisan reporting from within the frame of Republican vs Democrat politics. That the Dem-aligned outlets say the Republicans are bad and the reverse does not mean they are in any meaningful sense criticizing the US. In fact, this can easily result in whitewashing the US, as happened constantly under Trump, whether it was rehabilitating the war criminal Bush or indeed pretending VoA used to be impartial, a huge portion of these attacks rest on a framework that the object of criticism does not represent the agenda of the US and what its systems seek to preserve but is instead a rogue, an infection, or in some other manner foreign to or against those interests.
It’s media criticism, and what I had to say was mostly regarding the overall argumentative arc of the article rather than trying to hit on small details out of context. Is my assessment at all incorrect? Obviously I included a sardonic joke about diplomacy being communist, but besides that.
Also, I’m not a fucking journo! I’m not pretending to be reporting on international news for the pure sake of keeping my audience informed on political developments, I’m just some asshole commenting. I also, unlike that journo, have a significant hostile audience that I am writing in the context of. That guy doesn’t give a shit what China thinks of what he is writing. Your comparison is apples to oranges.
Did you not see the five or so headlines that made up basically the entire front page? I talked about those first to establish a baseline (there was one neutral one and one on basketball that I left out).
This is an anemic argument and you show that you know it. No, it’s not stormfront, but that’s because it has an extremely different audience and a different set of liabilities than stormfront (and obviously a neoliberal ideology rather than a Nazi one). If you thought the argument you were saying was worth anything, then I can just say “What’s your issue with Fox? OANN is way further out there. What’s your issue with OANN? Breitbart is way further out there. What’s your problem with Breitbart? It’s a little edgy but nothing like the unhinged rants at InfoWars. InfoWars? Please, they look like liberals compared to stormfront.”
These are different factions with different audiences, different styles, and different ideologies. Being able to point to something more vulgar is no defense, especially because – as others have stressed in this thread – that creates a huge, multi-layered bias towards establishment media relaying a centrist, neoliberal message! The place that happens to be America’s political center has no particular reason to correspond with what an informed and “impartial” observer would conclude except by cosmic coincidence, because the American center (as with any country’s political center) is historically arbitrary and constantly changing! We can’t just tacitly assume that the establishment ideologies are what are most reasonable and the fairness of all other things must be measured against that. It’s part of this myopia that I explained at the top of this comment about how people are so stuck in partisan shitflinging and those sorts of issues that they have no idea of what “impartial” could even mean! And I say this as someone who thinks there is no such thing as “unbiased,” that there are stronger framings for what is theoretically a pillar of your ideology, which I oppose, than what you have put forward.
You cannot escape your own perspective, your own circumstances and interests, but you can do a better job than you currently are of stepping outside of the bubble of Mainstream American Political Discourse and investigating what people from other countries not aligned with the US say, or even a more serious investigation of what fringes within America say.
Oh, and out of pure spite, I will inform you that NPR is a zionist rag that does nearly whatever the Democrats want. It’s laughable to call it unbiased, even if we pretend such a thing is real. They are partisan hacks and apologists for the neoliberal project with a progressive veneer faintly glossed overtop.
I don’t disagree with you about VOA not being 100% propaganda, but I think the thing that RT and VOA do share in common is that they are state-funded. With that being said, WaPo (just like the BBC) isn’t state funded so it’s still a poor comparison.
The BBC is quasi-state funded; its relationship with the government is not entirely cut-and-dry, since it is funded through a government act (though not directly by the UK itself).
What matters is whether the state has controls that prevent it from interfering with its media sources, and whether the those sources have missions respecting journalistic integrity. For the VOA and BBC this is entirely true, both have charters specifically mandating them to do that and their respective governments have very clear “hands-off” laws and policies (or did until Trump, the story does get a little complicated for the VOA recently).
RT on the other hand just publishes Putin’s marketing emails.
WaPo just publishes Bezos’s marketing emails.
Is your goal to be wrong in as many places in this thread as possible? Cuz you are killing it if so.
Just trolling now with nothing productive to add.
I added productive statements already; I’m still literally the only one in this thread that’s cited anything. Are you afraid of researching your stances and backing them up? Because there is a troll here, and it is not me.
I’ve written papers where I just cited the articles that supported my arguments and didn’t do a full analysis of the literature. It’s a common practice in academia. Logic is better at convincing people.
Well, your logic has been spectacularly unconvincing. And my continual exhortations for you to offer a single shred of evidence in support of your position have gone ignored, so… honestly my conclusion is you indeed have no evidence and no logic. Why are you even still replying if you have nothing to offer other than conspiracy theories and bad takes?
Ok, fine. Let’s operate under this assumption. Find me an article from the VoA that is critical of the current President.
I can find articles from the BBC that are extremely critical of Rishi Sunak (and Boris Johnson when he was still in office). I can find articles from the CBC that are extremely critical of Justin Trudeau (and old Stephen Harper). Any truly unbiased non-propaganda media outlet could surely find something to criticize about the ruling President, right?
Didn’t you ask this in another thread? Just in case you’re a different person, here’s another article from the VoA that certainly doesn’t look good for Biden.
Again, this isn’t about reporting facts that, by your opinion, look bad for Biden, but about political analysis (that VoA does do) that is negative for Biden.
For example, articles like “Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making” or “Why won’t Rishi Sunak give Partygate verdict on Boris Johnson?”, which has classic quotes like “‘Cowardly cop-out’” and “A scandal in plain sight”
An independent journalist agency has no problems making such claims. VoA does.
(Also, that article is by AP lol)
I think this is goalpost shifting frankly. I can find more articles on VoA that are critical of Biden. The fact that they don’t include sensationalized titles doesn’t mean they’re less critical.
Sure, go ahead. The article you sent is written by Associated Press, which is in fact an independent (American) not-for-profit and not funded by the US government. I would be a little more worried if they were, in fact, a government front.
I concede it’s a stretched argument but WaPo is known for hiring ex-State Department/ex-CIA staff onto its editorial board. I’m too lazy to find source but say something that gets me riled up and I’ll find the source out of spite.