I’m thinking of getting a second phone to ease off iOS. It has been good for productivity stuff but the closed off nature of the device keeps disrupting my plans. Everything is either expensive or ad ridden. (Except floccus, floccus is awesome)
So far I have read about graphene OS and am quite interested. I really despise google though. Any chance to use another device and put some linux flavor on it? I was playing with the idea of a pinephone but it seems to be nowhere near daily drivable, fairphone is starting at 580 €, volla phone (german) 450 €…
Some people said xiaomi should be rootable. But the amount of different phones is huge. The price range is awesome though. I was thinking sub 300 €/$ would be awesome so tinkering doesnt hurt me financially.
Disclaimer: I dont want to go full hermit mode with no sim and a faraday bag. I respect the opinion but thats not what I’m trying to do. I want to write some small apps for my phone and use it as a computer if needed. Calling, matrix and browser should work flawlessly.
Any ideas or suggestions? :)
I think you could reconsider your position re Pixel/Google phones. It is the one major maker that allows you to deploy an OS securely on their phone and GrapheneOS is grand. I have used it on a secondary phone for years.
Seconded.
I have calyx os running on my pixel 4 as my daily driver, with microG so I can still use banking app and M$ apps I need for work.
As you can unlock and relock the bootloader, the device security will still attest to the OS validity so security sensitive apps will still work. You can also put the stock Google OS back on easily at a later date if you so choose.
I could, for sure. It may even be a great idea. I’ll just have to solve that by myself since I’m very disillusioned by google. Its like if the devil made a good product.
But I get your point. Graphene is probably a lot more mature than others OSs.
This is the ONLY reason I got a pixel, alternate os support. The data they get from me is not worth much in the end as I already know what I will buy from reading on reviews etc. ads, even when I watched TV, don’t really work on me and the ones that do catch my eye usually make a sale for another co than the one advertising. Being ND has its benefits
Google dont manage to get data phoned back with GrapheneOS i seem to recall. I may be wrong
Graphene has researched this, and there’s one little thing one of the Blobs does - kind of a DNS lookup thing (not actually DNS), I forget exactly what it is.
There was a discussion of it about a year ago.
Graphene gang gang
May be check out other privacy focused custom ROMs:
LineageOS: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
DivestOS: https://divestos.org/pages/devices
I think that grapheneos is the most advanced one and if you can have it, it’s the best choice
I agree. I myself use GrapheneOS. However, seeing that OP despises Pixels so much, I figured these would be the next best options.
Thanks for chiming in. I checked the phones on the lists. Pretty awesome! Its actually a lot of devices that can be rooted which I think is great.
I dont despise pixels, I take issue with buying a google device. I could obviously opt for a used one which would at least lessen the cognitive dissonance.
But in any case, I‘m very happy that so many devices are actually runnable in linux. I have one of the few devices that cant be rooted which is pretty much the reason I want to switch…
Been using eOS for more than 6months on my old onePlus phone. I’m quite happy with it, but i’m trying to keep my usage as frugal as possible. Their app lounge lets you access the appstore so you could do the same thing as with the pixel phone
DivestOS is the only privacy focused OS in that list.
LineageOS’ goal is extend software support for Android phones, and /e/OS is designed for the Fair Phone. Privacy isn’t the goal, and LineageOS still phones home to Google for most things.
LineageOS still phones home to Google for most things.
Do you have a source on this? I thought LineageOS was completely de-googled now.
My knowledge here isn’t perfect, but I learned a lot from this discussion on the Privacy Guides forum.
You might find this chart to be helpful as well.
I see two options here really. Either get a pixel phone and install Graphene on it (this allows you to run play services in a sandbox), or get any phone that supports lineage and install everything there and avoid Google.
It depends on whether you need Google services or not. Pixel phones support both operating systems.
Thanks for chiming in. I dont need any google services. Most of my stuff is self-hosted by now.
Then a custom rom, like graphene is allows you to de google your phone. Although google have embedded themselves deeply into android, the pixels are quite open about unlocking boot loader etc.
thanks for elaborating. I’m not sure which OS i would want to use but definitely not stock android. :D
I’d really like to have a proper linux so that I can use the phone as a computer from time to time. Like impromptu connecting it to a tv and connecting a keyboard or something but I will see about that later. :)
It depends on whether you need Google services or not.
I would get a Pixel with GrapheneOS regardless of if you need Google or not. Graphene does a lot more than just sandbox the Play Store.
Having run other rooms since about 2010, I have a lot of experience with this.
I’ve intentionally bought phones based on the ease of flashing.
I finally switched to Pixel this year because I’m tired of fighting. My last phone was a non-Pixel 2017 flagship, that was about as simple to flash as possible.
Only needed:
- ADB on a pc
- enable OEM Unlocking
- boot to fastboot
- fastboot flashing unlock
- boot the phone to ADB/sideload mode
- adb flash boot <rom name>
The end.
Pixel works the same way. And, there’ll be another Pixel model next year. So I should be able to buy a 2 year old Pixel whenever I want.
I’ve fought with flashing (and rooting) other phones, which require more effort, and it gets old.
Even with a Pixel I have a project plan with 130 tasks to restore a phone (many of those tasks occur in a single adb install script).
Wow! Thanks for elaborating. Thats quite a journey and a lot of work to get a phone restored but I really appreciate you telling me this. Obviously restoring a smartphone is at least as hard as a pc if you do it manually because the proprietary „comfortable“ mode isnt healthy for you.
Using some automation with backup utilities (O&O Backup) and sync tools (Synching,Resilio) make a world of difference. Of course, backup requires root.
Neat. I wrote my own backup script for my two jacked up servers. I suppose I would be able to either write something or just use these classics. Syncthing i think is deja dup, right? I use a combination of deka dup and timeshift for my pc and a script if I want to push backups over network.
I’m not familiar with deja/deka dup.
Syncthing is good for copying files around. For backup, a proper backup tool is required. I’ve used Titanium Backup for 14 years (eek!), recently switched to Swift Backup, and am now switching to O&O/NeoBackup.
There’s also Seedvault, which I haven’t tested yet.
With Android, I do local backups and let Syncthing transfer the backups to my server when I’m on WiFi and charging.
if you hate google, you could buy a pixel secondhand, right?
Thats what I‘m thinking about as well.
Currently have a pixel 6 256gig
Spent about a half hour in a hot tub with it in my pocket on saturday and it shut automatically disables the usb port.
Havent had any issues with it this week
If it helps
(In a sprigen case)
What? I mean, did you test it or what was the idea with that?
Its like when you walk full speed into a glass door because you forgot THAT one sliding glass door DOES, in fact, exist.
Or drive away from your parking spot with food on the top of your car.
Inconsequentlycoincidently I had taken edible and also tried a new whiskey called spicebox chocolate. Its a canadian rye whiskey aged in cocoa bean barrels the label says. So im not entirely sure th at
That’s what I did!
How do you buy a second hand Puxl safely?
With iPhone there’s so many horror stories. Mainly what they do is buy the phone through some means that opens up the possibility of credit card fraud, then pass the phone on. Then they do the charge back to reclaim the money. Apple then bricks the device of course due to non payment and you as the second hand owner are stuck with a decorative piece.
You can try a refurbished store, I got my Pixel from Backmarket without any problems.
i bought mine from swappa, they seem to have a pretty decent support system for any potential fraud.
My Puxl was from eBay.
To be honest, I don’t know much about how credit cards can be associated with phone hardware. I would think it could conceivably be tied to phone #s. In my case the phone is unlocked and it’s not an esim, which I understand we will all be moving too soon.
I wonder if it might have something to do with Google Pay or Apple Pay that ties hardware information to payments? And as for Esim, it might make it so that you can’t distinguish phones based on their physical sim card so it perhaps introduces a possibility of reliance on hardware.
But this is all speculation on my part. I just don’t know and I haven’t made whatever precautions would be needed.
Oh! No-no. Must phone purchases in NA are made by CC at either the manufacturer’s store / website or a telephone provider’s store or website. The CC is not tied to the phone itself. But the purchase of the item is.
If you buy something with a credit card, you can dispute a charge and claim “goods not received” with the issuer of the credit card. After a time period you usually get the money back.
I’ll try to demonstrate:
i got mine from ebay as well
That’s what I’ve done for my last few phones. Aside from a battery issue that got replaced on a “recall” of sorts, my pixel 4XL has been running strong for years now. Haven’t bought a brand new phone for well over a decade now
Hell I’m still on my 3xl lol I was considering getting a new one soon
With the crowd here, I have completely de-googled my life, also hate google, and the data mining nightmare that comes along with it…but in the end. The pixel phones (with grapheneos) are the most secure and private out there, or one of the most should say, ya know seems odd that a phone by such a data hungry company, can be made into exactly the opposite. Have had 0 issues since running grapheneos on my pixel 6
ya know seems odd that a phone by such a data hungry company, can be made into exactly the opposite.
It shouldn’t feel odd, because we should have control over the hardware we buy, yet here we are.
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I didn’t know that, my google-fu turned up nothing do you have a link with more info?
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I think next to being data hungry they might actually make a sound business decision. I bet their pixel phones sell like hot pockets.
I can see how there isnt that much room to get another phone at this poing since pixel seems superior.
Can you elaborare on versions? The 6 seems to be universally loved. 7 I was told was a slight upgrade but not that awesome. How about 8? Also, will I be able to use the phone intil it breaks? Because I dont want to have another apple kill switch in my device.
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A alternative to fairphone would be https://www.shift.eco/en/ They want to put killswitches into their new Phone which you can preorder for 535€ https://shop.shiftphones.com/shiftphone-8.html
It won’t be as secure as a Pixel with GrapheneOS. Grapheneos won’t support that Phone officially.
Jesus. $100 for a pixel or $600 for this. Hmmmmm
how are you getting a pixel for 100 dollars lmao
Ebay. I never spend more than $100 on a phone.
yeah, even a used one, seems like it wouldn’t be so little cost. that’s cool if you’re able to nab one though
Yes, buying an used Pixel 8 or a 8a is what I would suggest. Its sustainable and doesn’t fund Google.
But their phone has some unique, inreresting features, like that Killswitches, 512 GB, expandable up to 2 TB with micro SDXC card, 12 GB LPDDR RAM, Electro-scrap positive thanks to the cooperation with our partner Closing the Loop, Designed in Germany/Falkenberg and fairly manufactured in our own factory in China , modular, easy replacement of Battery that has a standard format also used in other products from them,
Designed in Germany/Falkenberg and fairly manufactured in our own factory in China
That sounds like a red flag from a security perspective. If you own the factory and everything in it, then why even have it in China? And who is being hired in this warehouse for this security/privacy phone in this Chinese factory?
All the parts are in China already. There would be mad high tarrifs to get the parts shipped into Germany and then taxed again shipping to the customer.
The result would be the phone would cost 4x higher, easily.
I’d vote against shift phones. Support is also a crucial part of what you’re paying for and most of their communication on their website is in German, which doesn’t tell much good about getting customer support in another language. Maybe they don’t offer support in English or maybe very limited with longer waiting times.
Very interesting! Thanks for mentioning it! :)
If you’re comfortable with the pros and cons of an unlocked bootloader, you might consider phones on the LineageOS supported hardware list.
Thanks for the heads up. Will check. Any particular reason for LineageOS instead of any other linux?
Non-android mobile Linux is not mature enough yet.
I dont hear this often tbh. How do you figure?
By the fact that none of the apps I use day-to-day on my Android phone have viable alternatives on non-Android Linux.
I’d have to run Android inside a container on the mobile Linux which isn’t the best experience and if I need to have Android running anyways, might aswell use regular android.
While it’d be cool to have, I don’t really need a proper freedesktop userspace on my phone if I’m honest.
Android is also simply leagues ahead in mobile UI things.
I can see why this would make things difficult. This is what I use regularly. I know most of these should have proper browser apps. Do you think that would not work on postmarket os or mobile ubuntu for example?
- Voyager
- Fluffychat
- Homeassistant
- Browser
- kodi remote
- nc notes
- calender
- twitch
- bitwarden
- maps
- music
I think you’re mixing things up a bit. LineageOS, GrapheneOS etc. are not what people refer to as “mobile Linux”, mobile Linux would be Ubuntu touch, mobian etc.
Btw. do you know about Sailfish OS?
I have heard of it but damn, the design is sleek! :)
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Mainly because, of the Android variants that I’ve seen, it has the best community and device support.
Sounds good. I‘ll check. I‘ll probably have to test multiple OSs anyway.
So, I’m on a P7 with GOS, and truly it is a brilliant way to divest oneself from google services, alongside being probably the most secure
third partyROM. I think, they’re certainly very keen on it, and laudably competent, updates are around weekly, sometimes every couple of days, because there are some vulnerable (to state level actors etc.) users. It’s been great, I have a primary profile that is google free and a secondary for google stuff that I want, and over time I find, at my own pace, FOSS things to move into my primary, so I don’t need my secondary as much, until I didn’t need it at all. It’s great, and now I can move to any other ROM without google services and be (mostly, except for some bastard in real life requiring an app that I can’t install in secondary on Lineage etc, at least last time I used it, which will come up) happy. Thankyou GOS. Also, being able to revoke network permissions on any random app (including google services) via OS is Gold.That said, P7 has some issues, it runs hot (I recorded via termux), and if you live in a hot humid environ, don’t expect longevity near the 5Yr security updates promised. Mine’s spicy pillow at 16 months, enough to break the seal and accelerate degeneration. I live in a country with consumer protection for 24 months, so it’s not so bad (I hope, batteries are special), but in the rest of the world it would suck. I do not want to replace my phone every year, assholes.
TLDR: Get a second hand Pixel (4-7), hence not giving money to google, replace the battery, install GOS. Learn, live, enjoy, at the end you will have learned to live free (if that’s what you want).
Thank you for elaborating! Thats very helpful.
Do you happen to know if the pixel 6 will run iut of updates with GOS like it will with android and other proprietary phones? Because I‘m searching for something I can actually own so that I can use it until it breaks without having a security nightmare in my pocket due to seized updates.
My understanding is that GOS relies on google for security updates (and sometimes the other way around, they’ve made some flaws known to google). I would trust them to be solid, at least until google drops the P6 security updates, go look up how many years that is. At worst, you can then use LineageOS or something if you need security, hopefully by then you’re degoogled. GOS will still work, but to my knowledge, doesn’t guarantee updates after google stops updating. It’s about as good as you can expect from a ROM, I’m quite happy, personally.
this is kind of disappointing. My whole reason for switching is to keep apple from turning my device off when it becomes 5 yrs old.
Now I learn that its more or less the same with graphene since it relies on google security updates which means in two years the phone will be out of updates.
Maybe I‘m getting something wrong but my priority is not privacyTM but owning my device which means as long as it turns on, I can use it.
Fair enough, but P7 has 5 years of security updates, I think P8 gets 7 yrs, FWIW.
6 has 5 yrs as well. For me its just turbo capitalism with extra steps.
What I want is the phone version of the 15+ yrs old pc I just refurbished and turned into a server.
I‘ll probably really go for something else entirely then. Probably go for my initial instinct and get a phone I can run mobile ubuntu or postmarket on. Need to research more.
You can also look at supported calyxos/divestos phones
Keep in mind that divestos doesn’t support any gapps
My personal choice would be just Graphene, without any gapps
Ok thanks for mentioning it.
If your not going to go with a pixel, the best alternative is a new samsung phone with Divest OS.
Samsung is the closest in terms of meeting GOS hardware requirements (it still doesn’t) and Divest OS is the next best privacy respecting ROM.
More so than Lineage? I never heard of them.
Way more. Lineage is not a very good rom in terms of privacy and is an awful choice in terms of security. Both Divest and Calyx are better choices.
Lineage as the name implies is best suited for end of life phones that you need to keep working. Which i would avoid anyway as you are not getting any security updates leaving your phone extremely vulnerable.
Very good point. Thank you. By now the overwhelming majority has convinced me that I should probably get a pixel phone but I will still have a look at samsung and divest OS.
I am rocking a Fairphone 4 with iodéOS and I am very happy with it. Though I am definitely not phone power user…
Thats the first time I‘ve heard of this OS. What features do you like most?
FDroid is a native app store, aurora is preinsralled as well as microG. I don’t use any google apps and have none installed. Afaik there is no option to have GAPPS with iodéOS. They do sell the fairphone with the OS preinsralled which is very nice and iodé is from france which is a plus in my book as well 😁
Very nice! I appreciate you elaborating on it. Maybe I‘ll check this OS as well.
I have the same combination for about 2,5 years now. Local privacy network filter is awesome and customizable. Came from iOS so needed a couple of weeks go find all replacement apps and getting used to android, but it working well now. You can use Gapps if you need them but only if they don’t rely on playservices because iodé uses microg. The only gapp I use is gmaps. Banking apps in Netherlands work fine. There is a list somewhere in the forums about those. Devs are really fast answering questions on telegram/matrix. And relocking the bootloader works well on Fairphone 4/5 and Pixels. Security/feature updates every month.
I’m partial to the poogle gixel
Thanks for mentioning it. It feels like there isnt that much of an option if I want something that actually works. At least thats what a lot of folks are saying.
Yeah, I haven’t personally used grapheneos but that seems to be the reigning king at the moment
It seems like it.
There is no better phone than Pixel. It’s because Pixel has the support for the best alternative ROMs like GrapheneOS and LineageOS. I have a Samsung A53 5G phone, and I have to use Odin to flash stuff.
I went with a Nokia X20. It has standard android, no extra cruft and comes with a guaranteed three years of updates, as opposed to the Google device that was considered obsolete after six months.
It’s not waterproof, but that was the only feature I gave up. Cost half of my previous “flagship” phone.
No doubt there is a newer version of this device available today.
Thanks for mentioning it. Sounds like google is a real sweetheart with their devices.
I‘m thinking of getting a oneplus 6 with postmarket os since I‘m a fan of owning my device. This trend of the manufacturer deciding how long your device stays alive is toxic as hell.
