Why is it that everytime someone on the left does something stupid online, it’s automatically propaganda? Why can’t it just be the case that there are a lot of politically and generally uneducated people that are part of the movement, which is consistent with every populist movement for all time? This has to be reckoned with and mitigated if the left ever wants to actually hold power and do something with it.
It’s funny you should ask. I use this language specifically because when I say that leftist communities are filled with cringe populism and bad political science, I get banned from .ml pretty reliably. Calling it out as propaganda seems to play better most of the time.
Lol I guess it wouldn’t bother me much. I’m a SocDem, which makes me fail the purity tests pretty quickly. I just want a movement with a leftist heart and a pragmatic head, so we can actually win rights instead of performing while the Titanic sinks.
It feels like a combination of young people without any experience in politics trying to enact change without the ability to strategize and bad actors intentionally trying to create divisive political actions.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This is it. But there are actual mature voices over there. I truly believe that dessalines and his kin knows better than to shelter this obvious sectarian and campist influence but just doesn’t have the time to deal with it. Also it’s legitimately a hard problem to pare down either way.
I really wanted .ml to be a more academic oriented leftist community and actually made an effort to contribute such content. It is truly a shame that this kind of content is not only unwelcome, but unallowed.
While I absolutely think the latter exists, I just cannot justify assuming that every dumb opinion I see from someone I am on the same “side” with is some evil spy. Any movement with that sort of view will eat itself alive in no time. Starting to see traitors in your midst is falling into their trap just as much as the conservative who thinks that’s what leftist thought is defined by.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
Why is it that everytime someone on the left does something stupid online, it’s automatically propaganda? Why can’t it just be the case that there are a lot of politically and generally uneducated people that are part of the movement, which is consistent with every populist movement for all time? This has to be reckoned with and mitigated if the left ever wants to actually hold power and do something with it.
It’s funny you should ask. I use this language specifically because when I say that leftist communities are filled with cringe populism and bad political science, I get banned from .ml pretty reliably. Calling it out as propaganda seems to play better most of the time.
Lol I guess it wouldn’t bother me much. I’m a SocDem, which makes me fail the purity tests pretty quickly. I just want a movement with a leftist heart and a pragmatic head, so we can actually win rights instead of performing while the Titanic sinks.
It feels like a combination of young people without any experience in politics trying to enact change without the ability to strategize and bad actors intentionally trying to create divisive political actions.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This is it. But there are actual mature voices over there. I truly believe that dessalines and his kin knows better than to shelter this obvious sectarian and campist influence but just doesn’t have the time to deal with it. Also it’s legitimately a hard problem to pare down either way.
I really wanted .ml to be a more academic oriented leftist community and actually made an effort to contribute such content. It is truly a shame that this kind of content is not only unwelcome, but unallowed.
While I absolutely think the latter exists, I just cannot justify assuming that every dumb opinion I see from someone I am on the same “side” with is some evil spy. Any movement with that sort of view will eat itself alive in no time. Starting to see traitors in your midst is falling into their trap just as much as the conservative who thinks that’s what leftist thought is defined by.
I completely agree.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This whole thread is spitting facts