I can see why the “not getting paid enough” part is dystopic, but I can’t deny I love the idea of people dressing for comfort and/or functionality over “trendiness” and whatever the fuck “corporate glam” is… I’d be happy to just let the fashion industry die…
Fashion is another way to get folks to confirm and consume. Having a mass exodus of that mentality upsets the expectation and thus, the idea of what is normal is being openly questioned.
The folks who rely on that cycle see any divergence as an attack on them which they equate to rebellious.
Or it’s just inflammatory language to drum up some kind of sentiment. Who knows anymore.
Why are we talking about fashion for work suitable attire? Do you think business appropriate means fashionable? I personally don’t see any connection. You can dress down fashionable as well.
I was given a website with some men’s hairstyles and… yeah… you can keep them! There is an invisible expectation that “all the cool kids chads wear their bangs up” this may be one of our society created invisible gender and/or male professionalism markers.
To wear somthing like that, being a “strong powerful man” makes me feel… domesticated.
In the same way being a domesticated housewife must feel. (has it in the name)
EDIT: not strictly true
Im glad but also frustrated that (Edit: mainstrean) Feminism only cut off 1 head of a multi headed dragon before changing and abandoning class struggle. This beast attacks the understanding of all gender roles in the hopes the oppressed are also self oppressors.
Feminist thought didn’t stop at one “head” of the beast by any means. Maybe what you’re referring to is the neoliberal/corporate-friendly girlboss version of feminism that you get in popular media? You could try marxist feminism or womanism or other forms in academia for more perspectives.
What filters into the public view is generally only there because somebody was able to make money off it. Convincing men patriarchy also hurts them and showing society that patriarchy is a pillar of inequality isn’t so much in the corporate interest.
I couldnt be happier to be proven wrong! I based too much weght on my earlier experience of mainstream feminism (as limited and inacurate it may be). Historical feminism, I havent seen much media where the additudes and beliefs arent revised by modern mainstream feminists so I give the benifit of the dought.
The fact that I deeply relate to the struggles depicted in The Incel to Trans Pipeline and Inside Mari
(0:50:51 talks about her university library, ive included a transcription, please read it).
as well as the idea that there is a thing called a TURF, and if your trans, its in your best interest to not make that known to them.
Being a closeted trans woman, seeing mainstream feminism and asking “how are they going to treat me? Will they accept me? Will they believe that I still stink of patriarchy? (and in practice deny transition is even possable)” It brings a lot of anger that I know is unjust to apply to a label as broad and fuzzy as “Feminism”.
I know for trans media,
the mainstream warps what is allowed to be presented, same for Communism, (see, any communist political party in amarica, also Mccarthyism)
I relized it was probable that the same is true for Feminism. But now I have conformation that my old working theory that the movement was dead wasnt forked when it was userped was wrong.
In a sense, all this stuff, the trans community, the feminist community (for lack of a better word) and orthers, and their resources are burried under knowing where to go, what to type in an what links to visit. (search “trans” on youtube and all you will get is slop)
transcription (TODO: clean up spelling, 2nd proofread)
even in 2010, in Texas, my university library had a small but respectable LGBT section, and I began spending most of my time between classes there reading anything I could about gender non-conformity and trans issues. As I learned more and more, I hit a wall. The way trans people were described in these books, the words they used had this deeply solitified sense that their soul was female. as children they wore their moms high heals, they even said they were girls to their family. Even with the amount of disphoria I was going through, I didnt have any such certanty. It was complicated by the feeling that I wasnt really trans. That I was tricking myself into trying to ligitimizing somthing that was just a fetish. I loved womans bodies, I knew I desired them, and also wanted to live as one but couldnt amagine myself within one. There is somthing so pleasimg about one, there was somthing so pleasing about the thoght, somthing so indulgent that it felt preverse. As I read more and more, I took in 2nd wave feminist ideology and began to internalize it. What if I was just a socially dissaffected male who’s desire to control woman was distorted inwardly? What if I was apropriating woman’s bodies by wanting to become one?
Thanks for the “pipeline” link, I’ll be sure to check that out!
I don’t doubt that there must have been “feminist” material you would come across (esp. 2nd wave feminist / TERF material) that would have ranged from exclusionary to mindfuck to further problems I can’t even imagine. I guess this is why an intersectional approach is important. 🥰
Suitable and required are not the same thing. If you come in tuxedo to work on cash register in supermarket, it is not suitable, but likely within requirements.
Exactly, there is a silent rule tha men must look like this (edit: this is not as bad as the other site i found when googling it, thinking about get ting it cut, someone suggested it to me) to be “professional”. I hate everything about that look, I want my bangs to not be pushed up as to look like a hnock-off of steve jobs and/or the chad meme and/or genaric famous actor#173 and/or the “proper” men in 1960’s propaganda films.
Putting it into this style means not being authentic to be seen as “in the cool kids club” in the eyes of a hiring manager. Also, its cutting parts off, making it so getting the long flowy hair I want take longer.
Tbh fast fashion and fashion are two different concepts. People dressing like potatoes and buying h&m crap is very common. E.g. isn’t fast fashion a problem in the usa too?
I can see why the “not getting paid enough” part is dystopic, but I can’t deny I love the idea of people dressing for comfort and/or functionality over “trendiness” and whatever the fuck “corporate glam” is… I’d be happy to just let the fashion industry die…
Removed by mod
Fashion is another way to get folks to confirm and consume. Having a mass exodus of that mentality upsets the expectation and thus, the idea of what is normal is being openly questioned.
The folks who rely on that cycle see any divergence as an attack on them which they equate to rebellious.
Or it’s just inflammatory language to drum up some kind of sentiment. Who knows anymore.
Why are we talking about fashion for work suitable attire? Do you think business appropriate means fashionable? I personally don’t see any connection. You can dress down fashionable as well.
What is work suitable attire anyway? Are you talking white collar jobs, shirt and tie shit?
The only work that should require specific clothing is dangerous work that calls for PPE.
I was given a website with some men’s hairstyles and… yeah… you can keep them! There is an invisible expectation that “all the
cool kidschads wear their bangs up” this may be one of our society created invisible gender and/or male professionalism markers.To wear somthing like that, being a “strong powerful man” makes me feel… domesticated. In the same way being a domesticated housewife must feel. (has it in the name)
EDIT: not strictly true
Im glad but also frustrated that (Edit: mainstrean) Feminism only cut off 1 head of a multi headed dragon before changing and abandoning class struggle. This beast attacks the understanding of all gender roles in the hopes the oppressed are also self oppressors.
A necktie is exactly the same concept as the doily head cover handmaids tale bs
Can you link me an example? Or is it the thing that looks like horse blinders for woman.
Also what exactly are you trying to say?
I am suggesting that a necktie is a similar type of non functional fashion accessory who’s only purpose is to signal your obedience.
Feminist thought didn’t stop at one “head” of the beast by any means. Maybe what you’re referring to is the neoliberal/corporate-friendly girlboss version of feminism that you get in popular media? You could try marxist feminism or womanism or other forms in academia for more perspectives.
What filters into the public view is generally only there because somebody was able to make money off it. Convincing men patriarchy also hurts them and showing society that patriarchy is a pillar of inequality isn’t so much in the corporate interest.
I couldnt be happier to be proven wrong! I based too much weght on my earlier experience of mainstream feminism (as limited and inacurate it may be). Historical feminism, I havent seen much media where the additudes and beliefs arent revised by modern mainstream feminists so I give the benifit of the dought.
The fact that I deeply relate to the struggles depicted in The Incel to Trans Pipeline and Inside Mari (0:50:51 talks about her university library, ive included a transcription, please read it). as well as the idea that there is a thing called a TURF, and if your trans, its in your best interest to not make that known to them.
Being a closeted trans woman, seeing mainstream feminism and asking “how are they going to treat me? Will they accept me? Will they believe that I still stink of patriarchy? (and in practice deny transition is even possable)” It brings a lot of anger that I know is unjust to apply to a label as broad and fuzzy as “Feminism”.
I know for trans media, the mainstream warps what is allowed to be presented, same for Communism, (see, any communist political party in amarica, also Mccarthyism) I relized it was probable that the same is true for Feminism. But now I have conformation that my old working theory that the movement
was deadwasnt forked when it was userped was wrong.In a sense, all this stuff, the trans community, the feminist community (for lack of a better word) and orthers, and their resources are burried under knowing where to go, what to type in an what links to visit. (search “trans” on youtube and all you will get is slop)
transcription (TODO: clean up spelling, 2nd proofread)
TODO: Spelling, mobile doesnt have it.
Thanks for the “pipeline” link, I’ll be sure to check that out!
I don’t doubt that there must have been “feminist” material you would come across (esp. 2nd wave feminist / TERF material) that would have ranged from exclusionary to mindfuck to further problems I can’t even imagine. I guess this is why an intersectional approach is important. 🥰
Suitable and required are not the same thing. If you come in tuxedo to work on cash register in supermarket, it is not suitable, but likely within requirements.
Exactly, there is a silent rule tha men must look like this (edit: this is not as bad as the other site i found when googling it, thinking about get ting it cut, someone suggested it to me) to be “professional”. I hate everything about that look, I want my bangs to not be pushed up as to look like a hnock-off of steve jobs and/or the chad meme and/or genaric famous actor#173 and/or the “proper” men in 1960’s propaganda films.
Putting it into this style means not being authentic to be seen as “in the cool kids club” in the eyes of a hiring manager. Also, its cutting parts off, making it so getting the long flowy hair I want take longer.
Think about brand new “distressed” jeans. Wearing genuinely old shit that you didn’t pay for is a rebellion of a sort.
hear hear.
Tbh fast fashion and fashion are two different concepts. People dressing like potatoes and buying h&m crap is very common. E.g. isn’t fast fashion a problem in the usa too?