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- cross-posted to:
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The corruption is really open at this point.
Given how close the polls are, if want to stop this, Americans here going to need to actively work to help elect Biden. That means checking your voter registration, talking with people you know, volunteering, and financially supporting the campaign
Yeah 'cause Biden is doing such a great job, lmfao. Vote third party. I like Cornel West. He’s not a pathetic little bitch for the oil companies, like the main party candidates.
Biden has actually stopped taking oil financing for his campaign. If you are not in a swing state, it is probably a good idea though to show that there is support for further left politics.
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The simple truth is Biden has been the best president in lowering US emissions and his laws would lower it even more. So yeah, I believe that.
Also Biden has said that he will stop US arms deliveries to Israel, if Israel attacks Rafah. That is by far the most anti Israel thing, the US has done in decades.
And that is the thing. Biden actually improves a lot of things. That does not make him perfect, it does not mean he does as much or even as quickly as he should(as Gaza clearly shows), but Biden has been surprisingly good as a president. There are third party canidates, which are better then Biden, but given how the system works, voting Biden is a good choice in a swing state. In states, which are not swing states vote third canidate for sure, to show that going further left can win the Dems some votes.
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The hostile attitude and accusations will not be conducive to changing minds or furthering meaningful discussion, there’s room for nuance here.
Biden is ultimately a typical neoliberal bastard, with all the negatives that brings. None of us want him, but realistically, no third party has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning with our current voting system. I don’t think any of us would blame you for sticking with your ideals in your vote regardless of that fact, but I don’t think it’s right to denigrate those who would opt for a practical harm reduction vote over an idealistic one that would ultimately result in a dictator taking power and absolutely wreaking even worse havoc on both people and the environment, especially as we are living in a period where there is no time left for the environment.
We’re still not sure if there are extreme tipping points of no return climate-wise. If we assume for safety’s sake that there is, then it’s critical to prevent further warming, and I can’t blame anyone for choosing a lesser evil that has allowed meaningful climate legislation to pass, over one that is shopping around his willingness to destroy the planet for his own personal gain, and who has publically advocated for going full steam ahead with Palestinian Genocide.
Ultimately we’re voting for scraps, and that’s all that’ll ever be, since no meaningful reform can come from within the system. But I don’t see any benefit to giving up those scraps for something far worse unless one advocates for accelerationism, which I personally don’t since it means massively increased suffering with no guarantee of better outcomes long-term.
Saying all that, I do think doing anything beyond just tossing in a vote when the time comes, like volunteering for or financially supporting a political campaign is a waste of time and money that could be better spent outside of the political system.
With the primaries over you have two choices and they’re not even close to being equal.
Throwing your vote away does nothing to advance the causes you’re most concerned about but stands a strong chance of allowing a fascist to be elected, one who will try to dismantle the democracy that permits your voice at all.
I gotta say its very funny to see a movement with punk in its name defend the establishment as much as this.
They gotta keep choosing 99% hitler instead of 100% hitler and keep wondering why their country becomes more fascist every election cycle.
Martin Luther King Jr. cared about long-term moral issues and direct action rather than getting caught up in short-term electoral realpolitik. Lydon Johnson asked him to tone it down and wait until after the 1964 election against the much more racist candidate Barry Goldwater. LBJ promised him civil rights after the election, but MLK Jr. told him to suck it. He then refused to testify in congress in favor of LBJ’s civil rights bill because he was busy organizing marches in Selma.
If you think all people who attack Joe Biden for enabling genocide are pro-establishment, you must also believe Martin Luther King Jr. hated civil rights and loved racism.(Based on who you were replying to and your tone, I misread who you meant by the establishment. Oops.)The majority of Solarpunks are similar to King, and we’re in the same position of not having the political clout to ignore the shallow understanding from people of good will he had to deal with in his day. “Why direct action, why sit-ins, marches, and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” and “our acts are untimely” are still questions we have to answer repeatedly. But excluding liberals from the SLRPNK server only shuts down lines of communication that can move us all forward.
West, like the other 3rd party candidates is around to serve as a spoiler and make it easier for Trump to win.
Well, this country isn’t going to get better until we have reasonable representation, and binary is obviously not reasonable. These main candidates are atrocious. Literally both amongst the worse we’ve ever seen in this country. They shouldn’t even be allowed to be in power. They’ve both committed war crimes.
You’re in a 2 party FPTP system, it doesn’t give you reasonable representation by design.
You get someone you dislike and someone you dislike even more. Voting 3rd party is literally voting against your interests. That’s not an ideological choice, or a political choice, it’s a deeply saddening mathematical reality.
The only way you get your position heard is by fighting candidates for your least-disliked party during the primaries. Get someone you like as the congressional or senatorial candidate. Help them get elected. Even a small number of senators or congressmen can make the difference (see Synema and Manchin for example, or hell even Boebert and MTG who all wield(ed) significant political power well beyond what their voteshare should give them).
By fighting the fight you can’t win (e.g. the vote for president), you only weaken your least-disliked choice. So whoever you really don’t want ends up getting elected. Why? Because the US election system sucks balls.
Voting for the Green party makes it less likely that climate change legislation goes through. That is the sad, paradoxical reality. Being an ideological crusador in this matter doesn’t help anyone and is due to the reality of the shit voting system, despite the best intentions, immoral.
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You have a responsibility to be MUCH better informed.
Do it.
Why do you want trump to win? Do you really like Trump that much?
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Why should anyone read (or even pay attention to) your caterwauling when you keep ignoring everyone else’s cogent replies? You are the absolute worst kind of bad-faith actor.
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You seem to misunderstand the issue with US democracy.
You have that dumb “winner takes all” system where not voting effectively is the same as voting for Trump, and voting for a third party is effectively the same as voting for Trump. You either vote Biden, or you want trump to win, it’s that simple.
Hate Biden all you want, I’m sure there are better options. The point is that right now, you, me, the rest of the world, nobody has the luxury of voting for that other option. We do y want Trump, so we vote Biden. Not because we want to but because there is no other choice.
Once Biden is in, complain all you want, protest, whatever. But right now, vote Biden.
You mean the Republicrats are corrupt too? I am aghast.
That’s a new one for me! Thanks yo. Funny. So yeah they’re both totally unbearable and I’m sick of their shit.
So you are willing to take someone who is TOTALLY in bed with oil companies over someone who is much much less in bed with oil companies and does things like stop drilling in the arctic, fund renewables etc etc?
I feel like that kind of argument would make total sense to a 4 year old.
Astroturfing.
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Keep spinning that bullshit.
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Looks like we’ve got some fucking perpetuators out here tonight.