• JASN_DE@lemmy.world
    1418·
    9 个月前

    Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
    # hw-probe -all -upload

    So not skewed at all…

    • KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.worldOP
      689·
      9 个月前

      Do you have a better way of measuring it?
      In what direction would voluntary self-reporting of all system specs skew the display server statistic (and why)?

      • atzanteolEnglish
        1124·
        9 个月前

        Do you have a better way of measuring it?

        No better way of measuring doesn’t mean this is a good way of measuring.

          • atzanteolEnglish
            48·
            9 个月前

            A method that attempts to collect data from a randomized or representative population rather than relying on self-report.

            • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.eeEnglish
              231·
              9 个月前

              The fact that you need consent to get this data would make a randomized approach impossible.

              • atzanteolEnglish
                17·
                9 个月前

                Yes. It just may be possible that accurate poll data on such things isn’t possible.

                • conorab@lemmy.conorab.com
                  12·
                  9 个月前

                  Steam hardware survey but that will skew towards gamers. That said, it would be a good indicator on how compatible Wayland is.

                  • crater2150@feddit.de
                    8·
                    9 个月前

                    The Steam hardware survey will skew towards whatever it is the Steamdeck uses in the surveyed categories.

                • umbrella@lemmy.ml
                  1·
                  9 个月前

                  canonical has been doing this for years too, and a significant portion of linux users are on ubuntu. i’m not sure if a good portion of users enable it though.

              • atzanteolEnglish
                3·
                9 个月前

                I don’t have one. WTF? You expect that I should be able to propose a way of gathering accurate data just because I can see obvious flaws in their polling methodology?

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
            122·
            9 个月前

            What way do you imagine would be more precise?

            Unavoidable analytics, apparently. Yay?

            • refalo@programming.dev
              7·
              9 个月前

              Well do you want useful stats or not /s

              But seriously, a lot of opt-in (that never get opted in to) data is insanely useful for developers, but it has such a bad stigma that we never get anywhere close to the amount of usefulness a larger dataset could provide.

            • SuperIce@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              9 个月前

              I like the way kde does it. On first install it gives a slider with how much analytics you want to send. I just do all of it because I trust KDE, but it’s nice that it asks you. They probably have some pretty good data.

              • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca
                1·
                9 个月前

                This is the important point IMHO. This kind of feedback is exactly something I’d love to do, but I don’t think I had any idea about it before this post. Just a little popup on a new install/upgrade would be a much broader net.

      • Dandroid
        29·
        9 个月前

        I imagine people who care about this sort of thing are more likely to report it. And people who care about this sort of thing are also more likely to be early adopters and go through the effort of switching to Wayland.

        The way to get a more random sample is not something I want (built-in, automatic telemetry by default). So I’m fine with having skewed data for something like this.

      • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
        22·
        9 个月前

        Its a pretty good survey and has a good sample size. Statistics is hard. I won’t take the criticism too seriously.

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
      129·
      9 个月前

      err, why? actually it can be skewed against wayland(wayland users tend to be more security aware), and why the suprise, KDE, GNOME are wayland from the get go, steam deck too, hyprland and sway etc

      • atzanteolEnglish
        332·
        9 个月前

        It can skew either way equally. We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

        • ddh@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          61·
          9 个月前

          You’re discounting the trend here. Assuming the methodology is consistent, over a short time we’re seeing a noticeable change, bias or not.

          • atzanteolEnglish
            5·
            9 个月前

            I’m not actually. Does anybody doubt that wayland use is increasing? Distros have increasingly been making it the default. I’d be surprised if use weren’t increasing. In fact it might be under-represented in this data depending on whether all distros are being accurately represented or not.

        • iopq@lemmy.world
          5·
          9 个月前

          But the change in the numbers is not useless since the psychology of the Wayland users vs. x11 didn’t change

          • atzanteolEnglish
            2·
            9 个月前

            That seems probable but was there any doubt that Wayland use is increasing? Wayland has been changing to the default distro by distro. The only reason this is “news” is because somebody has claimed that “Wayland usage has overtaken X11”.

        • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          9 个月前

          type of people who would submit data to this site.

          Which is probably close to every Linux user who knows about it…

          • atzanteolEnglish
            2·
            9 个月前

            That will definitely be part of it. It’s going to be some cross-section of “people who know about it” and “people who are motivated to have their data recorded” which is going to skew the data in ways we can’t reliably understand. Maybe “newbies” are more likely to report than grizzled neckbeards? Maybe desktops are over-represented vs. servers? Maybe one distro lets its users know about it and so its defaults are over-represented? We can’t know.

            • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
              11·
              9 个月前

              people who are motivated to have their data recorded

              I mean, it’s not like it’s sensitive information.
              hw-probe excludes such information.

              newbies

              Definitely not, most newbies don’t even know about it. It’s really useful for gathering general hardware system info for bug reports, and I often end up having to tell newbies about it.

              Maybe desktops are over-represented

              Absolutely true, if you look at the database it’s vast majority desktop and laptop systems.

              Maybe one distro lets its users know about it

              I know of no such distro, I’ve hopped between many popular and unpopular distros over the years, haven’t found a single one that does it.
              Maybe an abscure distro, but it’s impact would be questionable.

              Also, there’s a point to be made in the other direction. The command you need to run is :
              sudo -E hw-probe -all -upload
              Without -E the environment isn’t preserved and it’ll think you’re on X11, despite being on Wayland.

              • atzanteolEnglish
                2·
                9 个月前
                people who are motivated to have their data recorded

                I mean, it’s not like it’s sensitive information. hw-probe excludes such information.

                I know about the tool. I’ve used it. I don’t report my system data. I’m not “motivated” to have it recorded. I couldn’t care less about their data gathering.

                Since you’re relying on people actively reporting their data they need to be motivated to actually do it. That doesn’t mean they’re afraid of what is being gathered (though have you seen the Linux community?) just that they haven’t, for whatever reason, taken the time to do so.

                For the rest of it - I was just giving sample potential sources of bias. I wasn’t proposing any of those as actual flaws. Just that their polling methodology couldn’t account for any of them or whatever actual biases may exist in their data. It’s just a list of self-report crap.

            • Vilian@lemmy.ca
              1·
              9 个月前

              yep, plasma was still x11 from default when steam deck launched, plasma 6 switched to wayland as default, now i don’t know if steam deck was updated to plasma 6

    • drathvedro@lemm.ee
      1·
      9 个月前

      I just did that, why not, but it misreported my DE anyway, so I’d take the OP post with quite a grain of salt.

      • refalo@programming.dev
        162·
        9 个月前

        Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.

        And another commenter said:

        We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

        • onlinepersona@programming.devEnglish
          58·
          9 个月前

          Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.

          What is the basis for that assumption?

          And another commenter said:

          We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

          So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.

          Anti Commercial-AI license

          • atzanteolEnglish
            9·
            9 个月前

            So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.

            This is basically a survey or poll. You want people to provide you with data about what they’re running. To get an accurate view of the entire population you need a representative and randomized sample. If you’re relying entirely on self-reported data you’re not going to be getting a reliably randomized subset of people. You’ll get people who are motivated to report their usage to a third party. That can lead to persistent biases in the data.

            It may be that Wayland use is being under represented because the people reporting want to show that “X11 is still king!” Or it could be that this website is shared frequently with certain user groups (e.g. in some arch (btw) forum or something) and so you’re getting a skew towards that population and away from the whole.

            We don’t know who these users are and we can’t “offset” for those factors. And the data isn’t reliably randomized so it’s subject to those biases whether we know about them or not.

            Though as another person pointed out the trend itself may be of some interest if the population being polled is consistent. Though I doubt anybody suspected that Wayland use is NOT increasing?

            • atzanteolEnglish
              6·
              9 个月前

              Man I spent 4 paragraphs saying what you just said in one sentence. 😅

      • chayleaf@lemmy.ml
        21·
        9 个月前

        by default, your content is all rights reserved, the most restrictive license possible. AI trains on “all rights reserved” content all the time. You really think adding a CC-BY-NC is gonna do anything?