• afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Generally I lean libertarian in terms of pure individual choice. Worship no gods or a million, be single or marry 20 people at once, put whatever substance you want in your own body, kneel for the flag or shed a tear, yes I will use your pronouns.

    Every man a king, that’s my philosophy.

    The rest of the stuff yeah. I want food stamp programs, I want a secular neutral state, I want antidiscrimination laws, I dont support a company dumping pollution on us.

    • _wintermute@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      You just described being a leftist. Why are libertarians so afraid of being put on the progressive left? You are not a libertarian lmao

      • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        For the sake of clarity in this conversation, would you mind defining “leftist”? It is rather ambiguous.

        • kameecoding@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          yes, and it’s not libertarianism.

          a political philosophy that advocates only minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens.

          food stamps, anti-discrimination laws and anti-pollution laws are all a big fucking no-no for libertarians.

          • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            food stamps

            Food stamps are not mutually exclusive with libertarianism on the whole. Libertarianism, very generally, can be described as encompassing the idea of maximising equal individual liberty, while ensuring that one cannot impart costs on another without their consent, or proper compensation for damages. Food stamps are more of a socialist view which puts it in the category of, what is commonly referred to as, “left-libertarianism”.

            anti-discrimination laws

            Correct, this would be incompatible with libertarianism – one has the right to choose with whom they associate, and what they say.

            anti-pollution laws

            This is incorrect. One cannot impart costs on another without their consent, or proper compensation for damages.

            • kameecoding@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              This is incorrect. One cannot impart costs on another without their consent, or proper compensation for damages.

              who is gonna enforce that? lol

                • kameecoding@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  courts? you mean a body of a government?

                  can’t have that, also once the court has done it’s thing, who’s gonna enforce what the court said? because police is dirty socialism and part of the government.

                  • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Libertarianism is not opposed to the justice system – in fact, it actually requires it – I point you to the model referred to as a Nightwatchman State. I would also remind you that Libertarianism is not equivelant to Anarchism.

          • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Ok it helps when you read what I wrote not what you want me to have written.

            For the individual I want as much freedom as we can give them. Everything above that I want regulated and I want welfare programs.

            • kameecoding@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              For the individual I want as much freedom as we can give them. Everything above that I want regulated and I want welfare programs.

              Okay, so you are a leftist, like me. In fact, you might just be a socialist, or even a communist.

              • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                My economic beliefs are: if it works do it, if it doesn’t do not. I don’t trust ideology and I don’t trust economists. Food Stamps work in that people don’t generally starve anymore, the free market works for video games in that people generally can buymore than they would ever hope to play.

                Only do things that work.

    • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I want antidiscrimination laws

      For the sake of clarity, what do you specifically mean by this?

      I dont support a company dumping pollution on us.

      This is actually not a libertarian belief. It is of the libertarian philosophy that one cannot impose a cost on others without their consent, or proper compensation for damages.

    • diprount_tomato@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      Drugs actually worsen the quality of life for everyone. You just need to go to some streets in San Francisco to know it

      • somerefriedbeans@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        No, what is bad is how people who use drugs are treated like criminals and thrown in jail. People don’t suddenly decide they want to be addicted to crack or something… But you know… Curiosity kills the cat. These people need help, not jail time. In countries where drugs have been decriminalized, there’s very little usage of hard drugs. Iirc, when users are spotted, they are offered treatment instead of a jail sentence.

        Decriminalization works and it has been proven… Yet there are still so many countries that refuse to take the step

        • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          what is bad is how people who use drugs are treated like criminals and thrown in jail

          Agreed.

          • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            dealers get jail

            Then we arrest a 17 year old POC male because of a dime bag was calculated using police math to be 1 billion dollars street value and clearly dealer level.

            And “therapy” turns out to be taxpayer funded rehab places where people pet fucking horses to get over their Marijuana “addiction” and atheists are forced to pray.

            • MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              I went to state funded rehab outa jail… They were putting people with multiple clean years under belt on suboxone. 🙄 while pushing hard on AA, which does come across as a religious cult to me, while the principals are mostly sound, the people sent into these places to proselytize, don’t have anything other than a Christian god to project into a “higher power”…instead of it being you and the people and world around you.

              • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                Because the war on drugs disproportionately impacts certain races over others. I mention race because race is relevant to the issue.

                But yeah thanks for stereotyping in a comment telling at me for stereotyping. I enjoy seeing my point made.

                • diprount_tomato@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Unless you all forget the skin colour of the person next to you, your country will stay in the same shitty situation.

                  • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I don’t believe that the solution is ignoring rather obvious physical differences, what I think would make a difference is the understanding that such differences are no indication of a person’s character.

                  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Yes I often tell people that we can better solve problems by pretending that they do not exist.

                    Instead of admitting that racism does exist and policies have to be crafted for the very imperfect world that we have now. We should go ahead with laws that assume perfect people act perfectly. Because if we assume this the power of wishful thinking will render it so.

          • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            OP wasn’t insinuating that you were saying drug addicts are criminals. How I interepereted what they said was that what you were describing wasn’t bad in OP’s opinion, and what actually was bad was that drug addicts are treated as criminals.

      • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Dont believe you and I wouldn’t care if it were true. I am not a utilitarian.

        As for San Francisco, have you considered the radical idea of building more housing for greater housing needs?

      • Kalcifer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        This is a strawman argument. I don’t believe that OP was arguing that drugs increased anyone’s quality of life, they were instaead arguing, and rightly so, that access to drugs is a in line with the libertarian philosophy.