The cost of sending a registered letter has become extortionate (as has the cost of postage in general). So I have started delivering documents by hand instead of using the post. I have my own database of numbers just like the post office. I print the unique number of the article on the article and also on a custom form for which the recipient must sign to receive.
For example, I print “livraison recommandée n°003” on the envelope and “Recommandé N°003” on the form they sign. Someone complained saying “this is not a recommandé”. My French is dysfunctional so I have no idea how I should be referring to this number. Is “recommandée” a word reserved for the post office? What phrase should I be using?
Should I just drop the “recommandée” and say “livraison n°003”? Sometimes instead of using my own form I use the post offices form which has on it “Recommandé N°”. Should I strike out “Recommandé” and write something else?
update
I tried context.reverso.net and found these translations in an effort to distinguish a “registered letter” from “recorded delivery”:
①
(en) Any claims must be presented within 30 days of the service provided by registered letter with recorded delivery.
→ (fr) Toute réclamation doit être adressée sous 30 jours après la prestation par courrier recommandé avec accusé de réception.
②
(en) All eventual complaints concerning the non-conformity of services in relation to contractual engagements may be indicated by registered mail with recorded delivery or email to Parc Résidentiel de Loisirs L’Escapade.
→ (fr) Toute réclamation éventuelle concernant la non-conformité des prestations par rapport aux engagements contractuels peut être signalée par courrier recommandé avec avis de réception ou e-mail au PRL L’ESCAPADE.
So I think “accusé de réception” or “d’avis de réception” is the phrase I need. Can any francophones confirm? Is one phrase better than the other?
I don’t exactly know about the law, but if you were handing me a letter telling me it’s a recommandé when it’s not, I’d have the same reaction. A recommandé has specific things that it does, it’s especially useful when the sender wants to prove you received the letter, and generally that means that sender wants money out of you.
I think the issue you’re having is a branding issue. Try using more friendly or costumer-good language like “livraison en mains propres”. However, if you find you need to use registered letters, that usually means you do want the post office as a neutral third party to assert that they did in fact delivered the mail, as your own database would hold up far less in court.
I don’t exactly know about the law,
I’m not sure either. I’m just winging it. I expect a court to accept the signatures I collect as proof of delivery just the same as if the post office collected them, but I could be wrong.
I don’t exactly know about the law, but if you were handing me a letter telling me it’s a recommandé when it’s not
I did not know it wasn’t recommandé. That’s the first thing I hoped to establish. The machine translation into English is a disaster (“recommended”) but I was hoping for something like “recorded delivery”. By getting a signature, we make a record of the delivery. Machine translations are a lossy process and can’t be relied on. So to be clear, are you saying “recommandé” necessarily means a 3rd party makes a record of the delivery? Some translation sources give “registered letter”, and registration would the imply a 3rd party. So when I try to translate “recorded delivery” into French, I get “livraison enregistrée”, which when reversing back into English becomes “registered letter”.
I was hoping to find a word that means recorded without implying registered.
and generally that means that sender wants money out of you.
Often that’s the case. But this an inverted case where I am the consumer and I am making demands of suppliers. Often, but not always, these are GDPR requests.
I think the issue you’re having is a branding issue.
It’s mainly one supplier that gives me resistence. Most suppliers just sign without question. On one occassion the receiving staff pointed to the logo of the postal service on the signature card, which clearly implied they were uncomfortable with the appearance of me trying to represent the post office, or masquerade as a post office procedure. My thought was: so what if the post office’s logo is on the paperwork? The statement they are signing is still accurate enough, which is effectively “the mail item has been duly delivered”. I guess “mail” may not be accurate if it’s not delivered by the post office. So the person in receiving pulled out a blank paper and hand wrote that my letter was received and signed it. In that case, it was indeed purely a branding issue. That is in fact what inspired me to print my own forms. Then on my next delivery they said “this is not recommandé”, paused, then signed anyway. On another occassion, ~6 or so staff gathered around to discuss what to do with my letter.
Anyway, I will try “livraison en mains propres N°004” on the next letter. Thanks for the advice.
as your own database would hold up far less in court.
I’m willing to take some risk considering how much money this saves, but I would hope the DB would not be relevant. I just use a DB to select a unique number to use as a primary key. The recipient signs that they received item# 003, which I print on the letter. It’s open to shenanigans because I could alter the letter in my records, but then that’s always a risk anyway as the post office does not validate what’s inside an envelope. It will be interesting if this experiment is ever tested in court. I imagine the legal standards are quite weak now that the government considers e-mail to equally serve as admissible evidence (I’m told).
After more thought, I do not think “livraison en mains propres” captures exactly what I’m trying to convey. It simply translates to “hand delivery”. I can hand-deliver something with or without a signature and that phrase seems not to distinguish the two.
The other problem: if a hand delivery attempt fails, I might then want to use the postal service. If the letter is labeled “hand delivery”, then the envelope needs to be reprinted. The fact that it’s delivered by hand is not important. It’s the fact that a recorded delivery that matters. If a carrier pidgeon brings a letter and the recipient signs and stuffs the sig into the pidgeon’s suitcase, that is still a “recorded delivery”.
So then I tried to translate “it was a recorded conversation”, which came out as “c’était une conversation enregistrée”. Bummer, because “enregistrée” implies “registered” which kind of implies 3rd party record keeping.
Maybe there simply is no viable answer… no short-phrase translation into French for “recorded delivery” without implying a 3rd party.
