cross-posted from: https://sopuli.xyz/post/13133455
It used to be that you could insert a coin into a washing machine and it would simply work. Now some Danish and German apartment owners have decided it’s a good idea to remove the cash payment option. So you have to visit a website and top-up your laundry account before using the laundry room.
Is this wise?
Points of failure with traditional coin-fed systems:
- your coin gets stuck
- you don’t have the right denomination of coins
Points of failure with this KYC cashless gung-ho digital transformation system:
- your internet service goes down
- the internet service of the laundry room goes down
- the website is incompatible with your browser
- the website forces 3rd party JavaScript that’s either broken or you don’t trust it
- you cannot (or will not) solve CAPTCHA
- the website rejects your IP address because it is a shared IP
- the payment processor rejects your IP address because it is a shared IP
- the bank rejects your IP address because it is a shared IP
- the payment processor is Paypal and you do not want to share sensitive financial data with 600 corporations
- the accepted payment forms do not match your payment cards
- the accepted payment form matches, but your card is still rejected anyway for one of many undisclosed reasons:
- your card is on the same network but foreign cards are refused
- the payment processor does not like your IP address
- the copy of your ID doc on file with the bank expired, and the bank’s way of telling you is to freeze your card
- it’s one of these new online-only bank cards with no CVV code printed on the card so to get your CVV code you must install their app from Google’s Playstore (this expands into 20+ more points of failure)
- your bank account is literally below the top-up minimum because you only have cash and your cashless bank does not accept cash deposits; so you cannot do laundry until you get a paycheck or arrange for an electronic transfer from a foreign bank at the cost of an extortionate exchange rate
- you cannot open a bank account because Danish banks refuse to serve people who do not yet have their CPR number (a process that takes at least 1 month).
- you are unbanked because of one of 24 reasons that Bruce Schneier does not know about
- the internet works when you start the wash load, but fails sometime during the program so you cannot use the dryers; in which case you suddenly have to run out and buy hanging mechanisms as your wet clothes sit.
- (edit) the app of your bank and/or the laundry service demands a newer phone OS than you have, and your phone maker quit offering updates.
In my case, I was hit with point of failure number 11. Payment processors never tell you why your payment is refused. They either give a uselessly vague error, or the web UI just refuses to move forward with no error, or the error is an intentional lie. Because e.g. if your payment is refused you are presumed to be a criminal unworthy of being informed.
Danish apartment management’s response to complaints: We are not obligated to serve you. Read the terms of your lease. There is a coin-operated laundromat 1km away.
Question: are we all being forced into this shitty cashless situation in order to ease the hunt for criminals?
In practice this works really well… coins on the other hand have been w major pain for decades!
Dont fear technology itself. It has helped us a lot to get to where we are. Fear it when jerks abuse it to gain power and money but not when it is used to improve quality of life
It’s not a fear problem. It’s an engineering competency problem. They designed something more poorly engineered than the technology it replaced, so it never should have been rolled out. It’s a shitshow of failures and it excludes people, by design. Everyone should be able to clean their clothes, not just a select group who have the right combination of hardware, software, banking service, and unhealthy disregard for privacy and infosec.
Having dirty clothes because your bank card with matching logo was mysteriously refused for unspecified reasons and having to walk 1km to find a machine that works is a far cry from improving quality of life. Compare that to the quality of life someone feels is hindered when they have to carry coins from their apartment to the laundry room.
Lucky people in the included group should also be wise to realise there are excluded people and refuse to use it on that ethical basis.
Misappropriation of power is inherently central to this design. Cash gives you freedom. Electronic payments give banks power over you. And they abuse it, like when they blocked donations to Wikileaks. They abuse it when they block you from using Tor. They abuse it when they lock your account because a document on file expired. Or when they require you to form an info-sharing relationship with Google and agree to Google’s terms just to download an app exclusively distributed by Google. It’s important to always have a bank-free option.
I understand that you hate the idea and that is fair. In practice though, this is really not a big issue and rarelly causes issues.
I happen to live in Denmark and have experienced this in person. I have had way less issues with it that when using coins. It is very inclusive and many of the apartment complexes that use them have backup solutions for people who want to top up in cash as well as solutions for when the internet is down. In real life, It is really not such a big deal as you make it.
Not in the slightest. Here’s what’s inclusive: cash. Cash does not discriminate against anyone. Banks are a shit show. It was hard to get a Danish account open and funded, and then once it was funded the money was trapped - could not be transferred out internationally.
They told me to pound sand. And they could not tell me why my bank card was refused despite the account being in good standing.
How so? There is no full-time on-site custodian who can override anything. There is no way to insert cash. The system is outsourced and the apartment managers only work during business hours. Once they had me locked into a lease agreement, they had no motivation to accommodate. Imagine if they did have to dispatch someone to run the machine for me, and then add it to my bill if the system allows it. The human effort every time I need to wash clothes would have made them quickly realise the foolishness of this system.
There is no culture of inclusion with Danish businesses. There are cashless retailers on university campuses. If you want a sandwich at 2pm and you only have cash, you’re stuffed. If you don’t have Facebook, you are excluded from some university announcements. If you do not have a mobile phone service to do the required 2FA for some university resources, they tell you to pound sand. Then if you cheat and use a free pinger number, they take action against you. You cannot even make a photocopy in some places without a CPR number. Denmark is a society that pushes digital exclusion to the greatest extent I have ever experienced.
The truth is, that you are the first person that I hear has had issues with it and to be fair it sounds like you are creating the issues
If this is the hill you pick to die on, go ahead. You may even be right! But is it really worth it?