• newDayRocks@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    The entire premise is BS because Biden has a list of accomplishments from infrastructure to debt forgiveness, progressive drug guidance, progress in gender/race equality, departments like the ftc and irs being competently run again with actual resources, to judge appointments. Hmm I wonder to who’s benefit it is to ignore all that and label him “not Trump”?

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Care to offer an actual list? Every time someone tries to offer an actual list it turns out to be meaningless victory laps. With the possible exception of the NLRB Cemex decision. But that’s getting it’s stress test right now so it’s a bit early to celebrate.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          I mean usually people try to curate it to stuff with physical outcomes. Otherwise 90% of that list is performative crap like this one. And if you don’t think that was performative have a look at what red states are doing in schools.

          • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            You do understand he can only do so much, right? You’re calling it performative, but he can’t do most of the major things without Congress.

            If you’re only complaint is “it’s not enough he should do more” then how about you tell me what your definition of “more” is, and then we can take a look at the actual laws and see if it’s something he can do without Congress.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              On that action he could withhold funding. Any police officers enforcing bathroom laws can be arrested and charged. He can federalize the Texas National Guard so Abbott can’t use them on the border. He could direct Darpa to research battery technology and make any resulting patents free and open for anyone to produce.

              That’s 3 ideas in his power in less than 5 minutes. The laws are already on the books. He refuses to use them and keeps running this “woe is me, congress is out of control” narrative and I’m tired of nobody calling him on it.

      • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Care to offer an actual list?

        They gave you a list. You go find the links if you’re so hell bent on handwaving them away.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          If you check my post history you’ll see I do go through the entire list when it’s reasonable. I’m not trawling through a thousand EOs and NSMs for an internet stranger though. That’s dangerously close to trying to prove a negative and will take multiple months. If they want to prove a point they need to support that point. Not do the source version of waving vaguely in the direction of the White House.

    • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      cough supporting a genocide cough

      Until then he was doing great yeah. Bit of a big one though.

      And before you hit me with the usual I know Trump would be worse for Gaza but it doesn’t change what Biden has done

      • TooManyFoods@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        1 he always supported it, so if you say “until” you just didn’t care until it went hot, 2 I don’t think it changes it that his opponent supports it harder, but it does speak to your options.

        • Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          He always supported Israel… I think the ‘until’ is in reference to Israel’s more recent and more blatant attack on Gaza - prior to that, Biden’s support for Israel wasn’t nearly as flagrant as it is now.

          Like, no one would bat an eye if I told them I support my wife’s decisions, but if she started breaking into the local NICUs and stomping on people’s babies, my continued support for her decisions would be a tad sus. …especially if I regularly said “honey could you tone the baby-stomping down a bit?” as I handed her a new pair of baby-stomping boots.

          I’m not a both-sides’er (unless I’m talking to a trumpanzee in an attempt to steer votes away from Agent Orange). My vote is going to Biden and I encourage anyone reading this to do the same, but our complicity in the genocide on Gaza is genuinely upsetting, partly because it’s complicity in a fucking genocide, and partly because this WILL cause voter disengagement and could hand that other dipshit the presidency on a silver platter.

          • djsoren19@yiffit.net
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            8 months ago

            The genocide started way, way before October 6th. October 6th was a reaction to increased aggression from Israeli settlers who had massively increased the amount of land they were stealing. The difference is that it was more subtle, so nobody cared, but if you forcibly remove everyone from their homeland it’s still genocide.

            Obviously I’m glad Americans are waking up to the realization that Israel is an apartheid state, but it’s been true for decades. The fact that Biden has always been a Zionist was a huge red flag, but he was “the only person who could beat Trump” and now we’re stuck here.

          • 0xD@infosec.pub
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            8 months ago

            Biden’s support for Israel wasn’t nearly as flagrant as it is now

            You’re saying that about a guy who has been saying shit like “I am a zionist” every year while sucking Israel’s dick. LOL.

            You’re just showing that you have 0 idea what you’re talking about and that your opinion is only based on your fantasies, reality does not seem to be of interest to you.

        • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Obviously it wasn’t as big an issue until October 7th. I did care, just not as much was happening

        • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          you just didn’t care until it went hot

          Exactly this. It’s astonishing how many people would destroy everything based on an extremely old holy war because the US didn’t suddenly reverse their long established policy when the conflict heats up again.

          The Trumpists are ecstatic how easy it was to flip these morons.

          • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            The Trumpists are ecstatic how easy it was to flip these morons.

            I would never vote Trump. “Morons” for having criticism of a president supplying weapons that have killed over 10k children?

            These centrist democrats are ecstatic how a substantial number of their voters have no standards whatsoever and will defend anything as long as it keeps Trump out.

            Downvote all you want. If you can’t criticise Biden for this you’re a piece of shit

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              8 months ago

              I don’t need to “criticize Biden”. That isn’t what’s happening anyhow. What’s happening is that people are pretending Biden is the one doing this and threatening to destroy the United States if he doesn’t stop the thing which he is not doing. Sending Israel money is a fuck of a lot older than his presidency.

              • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Just because it’s been happening for a while doesn’t make it right.

                Why was Rafah a red line until all of a sudden it wasn’t? Because he knows it’s morally wrong and will lead to a lot of death but is too much of a coward to stand up for what he believes.

                • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Just because it’s been happening for a while doesn’t make it right.

                  Just because you care about it now doesn’t suddenly make it more important than every concern, including preventing it from getting far worse.

                  • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I cared the whole time.

                    Honestly as someone who isn’t American, this is more important to me than economic policy or whatever. I want Biden to win, Trump winning would be awful for everyone, basically worldwide. But most of all I want the kids to stop dying. I really don’t think this is so unreasonable.

                    Trump won’t be convinced. Biden might be. And this “less important” issue could still cost him swing states. I think maybe not supporting a genocide could be a vote winner.

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            8 months ago

            It’s almost as if many of these people are just virtue signaling or falling for the propoganda. I don’t see any of these same commenters so vocally opposed to any of the other handful atrocities happening around the world, and yet they fail to think the next thought of what will the situation be like if Trump wins?

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Yeah, I think a lot of them are just bad actors, faking left leanings. Paid or otherwise. This one guy posts several times every single day about the war and often lays it all at Biden’s feet. If he’s paid, Putin or whoever it is truly does get their money’s worth with so many posts and comments essentially indirectly supporting trump.

              And if you dare to disagree with their bullshit of course the means you love genocide. Literally have had several commenters use those exact words.

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                8 months ago

                This one guy posts several times every single day about the war and often lays it all at Biden’s feet. If he’s paid, Putin or whoever it is truly does get their money’s worth with so many posts and comments essentially indirectly supporting trump.

                Are you talking about me? Do you seriously think someone pays me to post rather than me just being a person who is horrified about what’s happening?

                • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Given that your last post was about Bob Dylan and it was 3 weeks ago, I’m kind of struggling to see where you got the idea I was referring to you. Makes me wonder why you thought that…

                  • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Because this comment chain stems from my reply? Not complicated. But yes my apologies for getting the wrong idea.

        • Maalus@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          So if you are against genocide, you don’t get a candidate that can represent you. And americans would rather drag their dick through miles of broken glass than to vote 3rd party.

          • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Voting 3rd party in a primary is throwing your vote away, plain and simple. If we want better candidates, handily defeat the GOP so that it has no choice other than to ditch the completely fascist support, or collapse. That’s the only chance we have of getting more progressive candidates to vote for. Start in local elections, move to state, then get some of these people into higher office.

            Hoping that suddenly the incumbent Democrat candidate will become a super progressive person at the 11th hour is just a fantasy.

            • Maalus@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              My point exactly with “crawling through miles of glass before voting third party”. A nation of defeatists.

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                8 months ago

                Stop the disinformation. Voting 3rd party in this general election is just going to help Trump and the fascists. You’re either a naive fool, or a disinformation agent.

                • Maalus@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Again, my point exactly. You are almost combative about voting for anyone who doesn’t support the genocide. Good job.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I don’t need to torture my penis to know it would have a bad outcome to do so, kind of like giving my vote to trump with an extra step while pretending to be a martyr

      • Tja@programming.dev
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        8 months ago

        Until then he was doing meh. After that he was also doing meh, because that has been the official policy of the US for at least the last 50 years.

        So you have either “meh” or “let’s do turbo genocide and have oil companies write environmental policy” (not even going into all the criminality). I find “meh” to be the clearly superior option, even if it doesn’t align with my politics.

        • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          But if someone criticises the “meh,” this is somehow an issue with the person and not the “meh”?

            • daltotron@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              I mean idk if it’s that funny of a time. Even if they were criticizing 5-6 months ago, and who’s to say they weren’t, it’s a much more engaged in conversation right now, so it’s not a fuckin shocker that people are gonna start talking about it.

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      8 months ago

      Biden bragged about cutting social security, has no desire to reform healthcare, and doesn’t care about income inequality or labour rights. He looks at America’s race-to-the-bottom economy and he’s like “yeah. Everything is working just fine here”

      Also, many of the things you listed here are basically just “not Trump/not Republicans” in their own way. You really think “appointed competent people to run government departments” is a positive and not just a non-negative point (as compared to what his opponents would do)?

      Also, Biden is obviously fucking senile and I’m tired of people pretending he’s not just because they’re afraid it will give Trump power. It’s totally fine to vote for Biden because he was the lesser evil, but let’s not pretend he was ever a good option. When you ignore reality because it makes it harder to like your preferred candidate, you are doing the exact same thing the MAGA idiots do.

      Before you accuse me of anything, you should know I’m Canadian and have absolutely no dog in this fight. This is my unbiased outsider perspective. I could give a shit who wins the next election in the US, but I’m tired of people lying to themselves about either of the candidates not being a steaming pile of shit.

      • Tja@programming.dev
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        8 months ago

        Also, many of the things you listed here are basically just “not Trump/not Republicans” in their own way.

        • substitutes everything the candidate runs on to “I’m not the other guy”, because the other guy doesn’t run on those things

        • accuses candidate of running on “I’m not the other guy”

        • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          My point was “he appointed competent people to run some departments and gives them enough resources to do their jobs” isn’t a point in his favour. It’s only a neutral point. It’s the baseline that should be expected from someone in his office. You’re saying “Biden doesn’t actively strip the government for parts”. It only makes sense as a point in his favour if you assume that the alternative is “starve the beast” tactics (which TBF it definitely is). It can only be considered a positive as compared to his opponent.

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            8 months ago

            I disagree with you first statement. It is definitely a point in his favor because the election doesn’t happen in a vacuum, you must take into account who the alternatives are.

            • Zink@programming.dev
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              8 months ago

              Seriously. An election is a single event where people decide between some options they are presented with. It is not some kind of wide-reaching manifesto or affirmation of faith/loyalty.

            • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              The point is that you should hold the Democrats and Biden accountable for being evil and not doing good things that make people’s lives better (which they absolutely have the power to do). They sit back and watch the world burn, then when election time comes they say “at least we didn’t start any of these fires” (they just don’t bother extinguishing them)

              • Tja@programming.dev
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                8 months ago

                Again I disagree. They are not doing enough maybe, but they are doing something. Rescheduling pot, insulin prices, student debt cancelation… (I’m over in Europe so I only know about some things, I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know).

      • Perfide@reddthat.com
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        8 months ago

        I’m Canadian and have absolutely no dog in this fight.

        Then kindly shut the fuck up. I’m an American, I’ve ACTUALLY had to live in this country with Trump and Biden as president, and it’s no contest for me. I’d take Biden at his worst over Trump any day. That doesn’t mean Biden is good, it means Trump is just that fucking bad.

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          8 months ago

          I’d take Biden at his worst over Trump any day. That doesn’t mean Biden is good, it means Trump is just that fucking bad.

          Yeah I 100% agree. That’s exactly my point. The conversation here is whether Biden can stand on his own merits or whether the only thing he has going for him is that he’s not Trump.

      • nexguy@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        There are no good options. Right now it seems they either support Israel or don’t support Ukraine. No one is on the right side(imo) on both options. Sanders is the closest but even he wants strings attached to Ukraine aid.

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          8 months ago

          IMO there should always be strings attached to military aid, lest the military industrial complex have too much of an incentive to pull strings and keep conflicts going longer than necessary.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        It’s pretty rare for anyone to praise Biden on his own merits, especially on Lemmy. So maybe don’t get so irate because in comparison to trump, people praise him

        And yes you have every dog in this fight, the US is kinda fuckin important for global stability

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          8 months ago

          The US is currently the world’s dominant Imperialist power, if “global stability” means extracting vast amounts of wealth from the global south then perhaps your idea of “global stability” needs to be reevaluated.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            This is the laziest shit ever. It’s very convenient to say that things are as simple as that but they obviously aren’t.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              8 months ago

              I didn’t say things were simple. I said the US is the largest Imperialist power in the world, which is true, and suggested reevaluating your world view.

              The US is not holding onto hegemonic power for “stability,” nations can govern themselves just fine. The US is holding onto hegemonic power for profit.

              No, it’s absolutely not simple, but it is glaringly obvious that pretending the US is important on the global stage for “stability” is purely a western viewpoint that ignores the US’ contributions as a supporter of terrorism around the world whenever its profits are threatened.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  What have I said makes me a tankie? Saying that the US is bad for the world, actually? That’s all forms of Leftism, whether they be Anarchist, Marxist, or so forth.

                  If you’re just going to resort to Ad Hominem instead of defending your claims or addressing my counters to them, why even reply?

                  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Any time someone wants to immediately move the conversation toward “us interests are evil” it’s pretty obvious there’s an agenda.

        • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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          8 months ago

          The guys who fund terrorists and dictatorships all over the world are important to global stability, but not in the way you think.

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                8 months ago

                They’re simping for him. They don’t need to state the obvious directly for me to notice it

                • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
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                  8 months ago

                  Pointing out the facts about Biden is not “simping” for that pile of shit Trump. It’s like when someone criticizes Biden, we’re required to also provide a list of why Trump is bad.

                  Have you seen the guy? He’s completely open about his quid pro quo corruption. He hired his entire family to positions of power because why not. He shared top secret documents like it was nothing, while hiding them at his shitty golf resort. He’s painfully fucking blatant and obvious about how shitty he is. We don’t need to supply a list of why he sucks because the dude is a cartoon supervillain. Trust me, when I talk about how shitty Genocide Joe is, I’m definitely not pushing for another 4 years of that asshole Trump.

                  The reason we have to point things out about Biden is because a ton of otherwise smart people have fallen for this nonsense that he’s somehow good, when he’s nothing but a covert shill for corporations and war, just like every candidate has to be when they become the president of the United States. People like me are tired of the kindergarten-level “if you’re not voting for Biden, you’re voting for Trump” logic that we have to hear on repeat on a daily basis. Why can’t they both be shit? Why can’t it simply be a conversation of why democracy in the US is dead and the fact that we need some sort of political revolution or a goddamn miracle at this point?

                  Making the assumption that we like A because we criticized B and vice versa is just stupid and dismissive. The world is not that black and white and everyone knows that. This kind of attitude is absolutely counterproductive to unhooking ourselves from these Groundhog Day elections every 4 years where we’re forced to pick from a right-winger or a right-winger.

            • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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              Wtf? The guy who blew up the general who beat ISIS while he was on a peace mission in a third country? The guy who escalated the drone warfare across Iraq and Syria? Who escalated the trade war with China?

              No, America did not stop being an evil empire or start being good for global stability under Trump.