i mean, “gifted” is basically doublespeak for “on the neurodivergence spectrum” and society just fucking hates neurodivergent people.
It’s not really that we’re aware of our deficiencies, it’s that society makes us feel bad for things that are completely natural and should be viewed as sidegrades mostly.
My son is in the gifted program. He is also one of the most socially intelligent people I’ve ever met. Makes friends easily, is a natural leader, shows kindness and acceptance towards all people, and adults frequently comment to me how mature he is when interacting with them. He is well accepted by society and moves around in it with ease.
I also think you’re missing the point. Are you familiar with the dunning Kruger effect? It’s the idea that smart people are better at recognizing their own shortcomings because they are smart, and less intelligent people aren’t smart enough to realize all of their shortcomings.
Hi! Assuming that neurodivergent people can’t be socially intelligent is kind of offensive, neurodivergence is a wide spectrum and it manifests differently for everyone.
Also, just because someone seems good at something doesn’t mean it’s not a massive effort for them, read up about masking :)
You made the comment that society hates neurodivergent people. It was you they implied that they can’t fit in, not me. I just pointed out that my kid is gifted (according to you, neurodivergent) and that he is also socially intelligent and fits in quite well.
Don’t take any of this as offense. I’m autistic and I’m finding my way to thrive in life. It just would have been easier if I had been given the appropriate resources instead of being discriminated against.
As I said to the other poster, it’s not me who said this but them who implied it. They were the one who said society hates neurodivergent people. I’m pointing out that my supposed neurodivergent (why isn’t addressing their claim that only neurodivergent people can be gifted?) child is very socially competent and well accepted by society
That being said, this kid is not neurodivergent. My other one, definitely. Smart and sociable, but ADHD.
I was just mostly addressing the fact that none of the reasons for which you claim one of your kids isn’t neurodivergent is actually a valid refutation.
At no point did I say my kid is or is not neurodivergent, until this last post. The poster I was responding to was wrong either because being gifted does not mean being neurodivergent, or because being neurodivergent is not hated by society.
Neurodivergent people are mistreated by society though, regardless of if we are hated. Some neurodivergent people very much are looked down upon, bullied, and face massive discrimination too. It depends a lot on what kind of neurodivergence you have and how it presents to other people.
You can be mature, well liked, and have leadership and people skills and still be a neurodivergent. Neurodivergent is a very broad category nowadays. People with things like ADHD and ASPD often end up being CEOs or self-employed. They are in fact overrepresented in those kinds of jobs. Not every neurodivergent person is socially inept or immature, to think otherwise is frankly abelism.
Heck even I used to be considered mature and capable at one point. Could never get away from being considered weird though.
Edit: Oh also if you look at the definitions and the way professionals use these terms being gifted is considered a form of special educational needs. Likewise you could easily make the argument that anybody who is gifted is by definition neurodivergent, as being neurodivergent just means you are outside the typical range of human neurology, which gifted people are.
The top level commenter was the one who made the comment that being gifted makes you neurodivergent and the comment that society doesn’t like neurodivergent people. I simply pointed out that my kid meets their requirement of neurodivergent and is very socially adept. I made no generalization about what neurodivergent people are or are not like, that was the other commenter.
I wonder why it’s me you challenged and not the other poster, when your criticism is similar to my criticism of them and doesn’t really apply to anything I said (although I can see why it was inferred).
The top level commenter was the one who made the comment that being gifted makes you neurodivergent and the comment that society doesn’t like neurodivergent people.
Yes and I generally don’t disagree with either of those points. Gifted people are much more likely to have things like ADHD, Autism, Anxiety, and so on. Even if this wasn’t true being gifted still counts as special educational needs at the minimum if not neurodivergent. It’s also true that society often treats neurodivergent people (even gifted ones) badly.
I am challenging you because you essentially did the following: my son is gifted and can’t be neurodivergent because he is (proceeds to list a bunch of things that aren’t actually incompatible with neurodivergence).
You can be liked by your peers and still be mistreated by society, those aren’t mutually exclusive. Normally it’s through things like school and work not being designed for neurodivergent people as much as it is about outright discrimination.
my son is gifted and can’t be neurodivergent because he is (proceeds to list a bunch of things that aren’t actually incompatible with neurodivergence).
Except I didn’t say this. The other poster made the claim that gifted means neurodivergent, and the neurodivergent are rejected by society. I pointed out that my kid is gifted and socially very accepted, challenging either of their claims.
You can be liked by your peers and still be mistreated by society
A fair disagreement, which certainly is also not true for my kid, but I think we might be wandering into pedantic territory, but either way I certainly did not say that my son can’t be neurodivergent because he does well socially.
You’re saying that “gifted” refers to someone who is neurodivergent. Implying that neurodivergent people are gifted. I assert that gifted people are more likely to be neurodivergent. Not the other way around.
Look, I know tons of people diagnosed with all sorts of neurodivergent brains who are pretty worthless when it comes to being “gifted”.
I do however, also know plenty of gifted people who have discovered that they are in fact, neurodivergent.
i’m not saying that neurodivergent people are “gifted”, i’m saying that the term “gifted” is a euphemism and i don’t like the term.
It’s a way to ignore the issue of people being different and needing individualized treatment, instead saying that they’re “gifted” as if they’re just blessed by god to do better in school, which is a toxic idea.
We shouldn’t call kids “gifted” and give them the next year’s textbook, we should recognize that it’s extremely likely they’re neurodivergent and need a diagnosis and different adjustments depending on the person. One person might just need a separate room to study in, one person might need permission to sit in the back with headphones on listening to music, one might need an extra teacher who personally helps them out.
i mean, “gifted” is basically doublespeak for “on the neurodivergence spectrum” and society just fucking hates neurodivergent people.
It’s not really that we’re aware of our deficiencies, it’s that society makes us feel bad for things that are completely natural and should be viewed as sidegrades mostly.
I don’t follow this at all.
My son is in the gifted program. He is also one of the most socially intelligent people I’ve ever met. Makes friends easily, is a natural leader, shows kindness and acceptance towards all people, and adults frequently comment to me how mature he is when interacting with them. He is well accepted by society and moves around in it with ease.
I also think you’re missing the point. Are you familiar with the dunning Kruger effect? It’s the idea that smart people are better at recognizing their own shortcomings because they are smart, and less intelligent people aren’t smart enough to realize all of their shortcomings.
Hi! Assuming that neurodivergent people can’t be socially intelligent is kind of offensive, neurodivergence is a wide spectrum and it manifests differently for everyone.
Also, just because someone seems good at something doesn’t mean it’s not a massive effort for them, read up about masking :)
This. Especially the second half.
You made the comment that society hates neurodivergent people. It was you they implied that they can’t fit in, not me. I just pointed out that my kid is gifted (according to you, neurodivergent) and that he is also socially intelligent and fits in quite well.
None of this is rare for people on the spectrum.
Contrary to popular belief, autistic people don’t have trouble to make friends on a vacuum, they have communication problems with non-autistic people. If your kid is on the gifted program…
Don’t take any of this as offense. I’m autistic and I’m finding my way to thrive in life. It just would have been easier if I had been given the appropriate resources instead of being discriminated against.
As I said to the other poster, it’s not me who said this but them who implied it. They were the one who said society hates neurodivergent people. I’m pointing out that my supposed neurodivergent (why isn’t addressing their claim that only neurodivergent people can be gifted?) child is very socially competent and well accepted by society
That being said, this kid is not neurodivergent. My other one, definitely. Smart and sociable, but ADHD.
I was just mostly addressing the fact that none of the reasons for which you claim one of your kids isn’t neurodivergent is actually a valid refutation.
At no point did I say my kid is or is not neurodivergent, until this last post. The poster I was responding to was wrong either because being gifted does not mean being neurodivergent, or because being neurodivergent is not hated by society.
Neurodivergent people are mistreated by society though, regardless of if we are hated. Some neurodivergent people very much are looked down upon, bullied, and face massive discrimination too. It depends a lot on what kind of neurodivergence you have and how it presents to other people.
Let’s keep in mind what I was initially responding to.
You can be mature, well liked, and have leadership and people skills and still be a neurodivergent. Neurodivergent is a very broad category nowadays. People with things like ADHD and ASPD often end up being CEOs or self-employed. They are in fact overrepresented in those kinds of jobs. Not every neurodivergent person is socially inept or immature, to think otherwise is frankly abelism.
Heck even I used to be considered mature and capable at one point. Could never get away from being considered weird though.
Edit: Oh also if you look at the definitions and the way professionals use these terms being gifted is considered a form of special educational needs. Likewise you could easily make the argument that anybody who is gifted is by definition neurodivergent, as being neurodivergent just means you are outside the typical range of human neurology, which gifted people are.
The top level commenter was the one who made the comment that being gifted makes you neurodivergent and the comment that society doesn’t like neurodivergent people. I simply pointed out that my kid meets their requirement of neurodivergent and is very socially adept. I made no generalization about what neurodivergent people are or are not like, that was the other commenter.
I wonder why it’s me you challenged and not the other poster, when your criticism is similar to my criticism of them and doesn’t really apply to anything I said (although I can see why it was inferred).
You are EatATaco, right?
Yes and I generally don’t disagree with either of those points. Gifted people are much more likely to have things like ADHD, Autism, Anxiety, and so on. Even if this wasn’t true being gifted still counts as special educational needs at the minimum if not neurodivergent. It’s also true that society often treats neurodivergent people (even gifted ones) badly.
I am challenging you because you essentially did the following: my son is gifted and can’t be neurodivergent because he is (proceeds to list a bunch of things that aren’t actually incompatible with neurodivergence).
You can be liked by your peers and still be mistreated by society, those aren’t mutually exclusive. Normally it’s through things like school and work not being designed for neurodivergent people as much as it is about outright discrimination.
Do you get me?
Except I didn’t say this. The other poster made the claim that gifted means neurodivergent, and the neurodivergent are rejected by society. I pointed out that my kid is gifted and socially very accepted, challenging either of their claims.
A fair disagreement, which certainly is also not true for my kid, but I think we might be wandering into pedantic territory, but either way I certainly did not say that my son can’t be neurodivergent because he does well socially.
I see what you’re going for here, and I disagree.
You’re saying that “gifted” refers to someone who is neurodivergent. Implying that neurodivergent people are gifted. I assert that gifted people are more likely to be neurodivergent. Not the other way around.
Look, I know tons of people diagnosed with all sorts of neurodivergent brains who are pretty worthless when it comes to being “gifted”.
I do however, also know plenty of gifted people who have discovered that they are in fact, neurodivergent.
I’m just saying.
i’m not saying that neurodivergent people are “gifted”, i’m saying that the term “gifted” is a euphemism and i don’t like the term.
It’s a way to ignore the issue of people being different and needing individualized treatment, instead saying that they’re “gifted” as if they’re just blessed by god to do better in school, which is a toxic idea.
We shouldn’t call kids “gifted” and give them the next year’s textbook, we should recognize that it’s extremely likely they’re neurodivergent and need a diagnosis and different adjustments depending on the person. One person might just need a separate room to study in, one person might need permission to sit in the back with headphones on listening to music, one might need an extra teacher who personally helps them out.